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Re-keying a Schalge with depth keys

Information on Locksmith training, certification, licensing, and operating a business.

Moderator: keysman

Re-keying a Schalge with depth keys

Postby corey2444 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:41 pm

Took it apart, made up a number on a 5 pin key. Started to make my cuts with depth keys, starting from shallow to deep. when I was finished the key looked like absolute crap. I dressed it up, but it really did not look professional. Tried again, same thing. Again, same thing. The machine is calibrated, and I'm focusing on the depth keys, not the cut key. What could be wrong?
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Re: Re-keying a Schalge with depth keys

Postby keysman » Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:08 pm

Can you show us a picture of your " new" key?
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Re: Re-keying a Schalge with depth keys

Postby ElAbogado » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:23 am

corey2444 wrote:Took it apart, made up a number on a 5 pin key. Started to make my cuts with depth keys, starting from shallow to deep. when I was finished the key looked like absolute crap. I dressed it up, but it really did not look professional. Tried again, same thing. Again, same thing. The machine is calibrated, and I'm focusing on the depth keys, not the cut key. What could be wrong?


It's kind of like playing the violin. You can pick one up and run the bow across the strings, but it will sound like your key looks.

Practice...
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Re: Re-keying a Schalge with depth keys

Postby Squelchtone » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:41 am

I'm glad I saw this post because I have always wondered how you join the valleys while using depth/space keys to cut by code.

Is there a general rule of thumb that you join cut to cut by having the deeper cut depth and space key in the machine, and then you move to the left or right to the shallower cut that is adjacent, or do you center the cutter on a shallower cut, and cut down to the deeper cut to join the two? hope that makes sense.

Thanks for any explanation you can give,

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Re: Re-keying a Schalge with depth keys

Postby keysman » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:47 am

squelchtone wrote:I'm glad I saw this post because I have always wondered how you join the valleys while using depth/space keys to cut by code.


Squelchtone



here is a link that gives a " pretty good" explaination

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Locksmithing-3110/space-depth-keys.htm
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Re: Re-keying a Schalge with depth keys

Postby Squelchtone » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:41 am

keysman wrote:
squelchtone wrote:I'm glad I saw this post because I have always wondered how you join the valleys while using depth/space keys to cut by code.


Squelchtone



here is a link that gives a " pretty good" explaination

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Locksmithing-3110/space-depth-keys.htm



Thanks. I have a decent idea of how you change out the different keys but the question was what happens at the peaks? If we take the example from that link and the bitting is 446113, lets say you just cut that 6, you probably have to be pretty careful not to drag the key too far left because the wheel is going to start cutting that 1 cut in the shape of a 6, so where in the cut do you stop and change out the depth key to a 11111? half way from the valley bottom to the top of the blank? just as the cutting wheel reaches the top of the blank?

Thanks,
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Re: Re-keying a Schalge with depth keys

Postby ElAbogado » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:39 am

squelchtone wrote:I'm glad I saw this post because I have always wondered how you join the valleys while using depth/space keys to cut by code.

Is there a general rule of thumb that you join cut to cut by having the deeper cut depth and space key in the machine, and then you move to the left or right to the shallower cut that is adjacent, or do you center the cutter on a shallower cut, and cut down to the deeper cut to join the two? hope that makes sense.

Thanks for any explanation you can give,

Squelchtone


The secret is to have 2 depth keys for each depth. The first key is cut to the numbered cut on cuts 1, 3, 5; the second key is cut on cuts 2, 4, 6. This give you both angles to copy without the jagged edge. The deeper cut depth keys will be cut about 4 cuts shallower on the NON depth cut; e.g. on depth key #8, odd key, cuts would be: 848484, but you use only the 8's....get it?
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Re: Re-keying a Schalge with depth keys

Postby thelockpickkid » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:39 am

Hey, I once a long time ago had this same question. Zeke had an article I read once on how to do this, and his method works the best out of any in my opinion. I mentioned this article once here:http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=45147

But I just looked and it seems I failed to tell what his method is that I use, and nobody put a link there for the article. On a schlage with a depth of say 23532 for example, first put in depth key with all #2 cuts, cut all the cuts on your key blank #2 depths, then cut your # 3's in both positions accordingly, then last cut your single # 5 cut with your #5 depth key. This way all your peaks are all uniform and your slopes are all nice. If this isn't what your talking about please forgive me. I tried!! I have used this method tons of times and really is the only way to do it to keep your keys looking nice and clean.
Shoot first ask questions later! Thelockpickkid
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Re: Re-keying a Schalge with depth keys

Postby npdaniels » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:36 am

+I had the same problem cutting blanks with depth keys. The way I solved it was buy a code cutting machine.:)

The method thelockpickkid described is the one I used, then you doctor the key up after it's out of the duplicator. I found if you’re really careful you can cut a decent key, but it will never be as professional as a code machine cuts. Not much help but I understand your frustration.
Keys? We don't need no stinkin keys!
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Re: Re-keying a Schalge with depth keys

Postby corey2444 » Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:03 pm

Can you show us a picture of your " new" key?


I would love to, but I don't know how to put pics on a forum like this. I can do it on Ebay or Craigslist but not on a forum.


But I just looked and it seems I failed to tell what his method is that I use, and nobody put a link there for the article. On a schlage with a depth of say 23532 for example, first put in depth key with all #2 cuts, cut all the cuts on your key blank #2 depths, then cut your # 3's in both positions accordingly, then last cut your single # 5 cut with your #5 depth key. This way all your peaks are all uniform and your slopes are all nice. If this isn't what your talking about please forgive me. I tried!! I have used this method tons of times and really is the only way to do it to keep your keys looking nice and clean.


That's exactly how I cut mine each time. I think the problem is, when you have shallow cuts, followed by deep or semi-deep cuts. So when re-keying imho, it would be best to re-key not making the cuts any more than 2 deep.. That's my theory as of now, that hasn't been tested yet :)

But, npdaniels is right.. Need to get that code cutter. expensive piece of equipment though.
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Re: Re-keying a Schalge with depth keys

Postby unlisted » Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:07 pm

corey2444 wrote:
Can you show us a picture of your " new" key?


I would love to, but I don't know how to put pics on a forum like this. I can do it on Ebay or Craigslist but not on a forum.


www.photobucket.com
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Re: Re-keying a Schalge with depth keys

Postby thelockpickkid » Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:10 pm

corey2444 wrote:
Can you show us a picture of your " new" key?


I would love to, but I don't know how to put pics on a forum like this. I can do it on Ebay or Craigslist but not on a forum.


But I just looked and it seems I failed to tell what his method is that I use, and nobody put a link there for the article. On a schlage with a depth of say 23532 for example, first put in depth key with all #2 cuts, cut all the cuts on your key blank #2 depths, then cut your # 3's in both positions accordingly, then last cut your single # 5 cut with your #5 depth key. This way all your peaks are all uniform and your slopes are all nice. If this isn't what your talking about please forgive me. I tried!! I have used this method tons of times and really is the only way to do it to keep your keys looking nice and clean.


That's exactly how I cut mine each time. I think the problem is, when you have shallow cuts, followed by deep or semi-deep cuts. So when re-keying imho, it would be best to re-key not making the cuts any more than 2 deep.. That's my theory as of now, that hasn't been tested yet :)

But, npdaniels is right.. Need to get that code cutter. <censored> expensive piece of equipment though.


Did you by chance exceed MACS when you chose your random depths for your new key??
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Re: Re-keying a Schalge with depth keys

Postby corey2444 » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:03 pm

Did you by chance exceed MACS when you chose your random depths for your new key??


I guessing what "MACS" means, but possibly..

First one: 4-5-3-7-9 : Crap, horrible.

Second: 3-2-4-2-5 : A little better, but not to my liking.
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Re: Re-keying a Schalge with depth keys

Postby npdaniels » Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:31 am

MACS = Maximum adjacent cut specification
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Re: Re-keying a Schalge with depth keys

Postby mylofox » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:31 pm

squelchtone wrote:I'm glad I saw this post because I have always wondered how you join the valleys while using depth/space keys to cut by code.

Is there a general rule of thumb that you join cut to cut by having the deeper cut depth and space key in the machine, and then you move to the left or right to the shallower cut that is adjacent, or do you center the cutter on a shallower cut, and cut down to the deeper cut to join the two? hope that makes sense.

Thanks for any explanation you can give,

Squelchtone


Ok first sorry for the length of this post but it's for educational purposes!

This is a photo explanation so you can SEE what I did rather than me explaining everything.

Start with your key and have the bitting you want to use near you. I used Squelchtone's example in one of his earlyer posts in this thread.

Bow to Tip - 4 4 6 1 1 3 on an SC4 blank.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/CX ... directlink

I always start from bow/head and work my way to the tip/end. Here are the first two cuts 4-4

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Jm ... directlink

Now take a look here at cut #3. I drop the cut down to the cut depth somewhere in the middle of the cut.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Py ... directlink

Then I back up a little cutting the left half of the cut. If you go back up the slope of this cut too far you will fall back into the previous cut so stop before that. Then clean up the cut by eye.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/vF ... directlink

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/dj ... directlink

We now have cuts 4-4-6 now on to the next one, sorry 'bout the pic.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/kx ... directlink

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ao ... directlink

Great now we have a key that has 5 cuts bitting - 4-4-6-1-1. Now the #3 cut. It's done the same as the #6 depth cut.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/vh ... directlink

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/mn ... directlink

There! We have successfully cut a SC4 to bitting 446113. It does take some practice but I can make darn good keys. They work just as good as a key cut from a punch or mill machine like a hpc1200. AND I only used one key! Saves on keys lol!

Here's the finished key.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bH ... directlink

This is an old skill but a good one to have. You never know when your mill might take a boom boom on you hehe!

Good Luck Everyone!
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