HPC 1200 Punch for new guy on a budget?

[Hollywoodpick]

It might cost less, but unless you intend to memorize all of the depth and spacing charts for every lock known to man or keep them handy to the Framon II machine at all times, you might tire of having to do all the math and think in thousandths of inches all the time using the machine to cut keys with it... You are essentially cutting by code using a micrometer with a Framon II... The HPC uses the code cards and is symbolic -- you don't need to dial to a depth in thousandths of an inch, you crank the needle to "5" or "7" on the code card which is more visual...

So it comes down to the differences between the big three code machines for the entry level:

Framon II for those who like to think mathematically and numerically all the time...

HPC 1200 Blitz for those who are more visual and symbolic...

ITL 9000 for those who like flashy automatic gizmos and electronics... (not for those who couldn't get their VCR to stop flashing "12:00")

~~ Evan[/quote]

I did watch the videos on it and i am ok to think mathematically and numerically all the time I did buy it i should have it some time this next week it has two code books and 4 cut wheels but only one block i need to buy the others but still with buying them i am at a good price.

From what i could see you just look up the lock code and dial in each cut that dose not seem to be very hard at all or you can use the micrometer when needed to get the cut info.
It dose seem like it will take only a few seconds longer for each cut then the hpc but from what i have been reading it is more dead on and the the Framon II is die hard work horse that almost never need any fixing or work done to it.

Like It was pointed out to me it is like you like Ford or Chevy you like the HPC or the Framon they both get the job done, If i learn the Framon then that is what i will know and it will become easy to me.

[cledry]

Gentlemen, let's step back a few feet please.

I'm seeing the posts verge on matters of personal preference and opinion, and I'd prefer personal opinions not be crammed down other users throats. Keeping to specs is a good practice, but nobody is out there with a digital micrometer making sure pins installed in a lock are .000005 to spec.. cmon now..

We all do things differently but still all manage to do a good job. What are the chances of OSHA or UL or the State Fire Marshall or ANSI/BHMA or NTSB coming to place any of us just installed or serviced or repinned or master pinned a lock and taking that lock apart to see what pins were used? None. If the key that is cut to proper steps and proper MACS inserts into the keyway and smoothly locks and unlocks the lock, and it happens to have an OEM key but some universal LAB pins, so what, it works. It is a moot point to further the discussion if you guys are just going to nit pick back and fourth about minute details.

Either help the OP save some money starting his business, or don't.

Thank you and play nice.
Squelchtone

You are right, sorry.

BTW, it is moot not mute.

[Squelchtone]

BTW, it is moot not mute.

I have no idea what you're talking about

=)

[cledry]

BTW, it is moot not mute.

I have no idea what you're talking about

=)

Ah, the privilege of being a moderator.

[wheresmykeys?]

ITL 9000 for those who like flashy automatic gizmos and electronics... (not for those who couldn't get their VCR to stop flashing "12:00")

The ITL 9000 is actually very easy to use, we had one at the resort I worked at and that thing is amazing with all the functions it has. Like customizing a setting that is not already programed in, laser cutting automotive keys, cutting half steps if needed. It is one of the best machines money can buy, but it is expensive that is why I have a HPC 1200, when i get the money I'm gonna buy an ITL 9000 or a ITL 950

[gibson]

hpc 1200 is tops,IMO. once you get the hang of it, it is easily calibrated. recently we added keymark to our offerings, and all that was needed was a cutter, the code and spacing card being the same as BEST. the darn thing is 20+ years old and is still cranking away. twice in the last three years i've gotten cutters from lockies that were retiring. i don't know if it's a regional thing or what, but it seems like every shop in my area uses them. i think that in the long run, investing in a blitz (either new or used) is a good investment for someone setting themselves up in business.

[jruno602]

Just like to chime in on the convo that i read on this thread so far

When i first started i had more ambition than dollars so i pretty much had to make smart choices when first starting out..

The first purchase i made when i was a locksmith newbie was a Mini Speedex Machine..i bought it brand new!...i still use it to this day and i have duplicated tons and tons of keys with this one machine..it takes a licking and keeps on ticking..i've adjusted it a handful times over the years but in the begining i bought depth keys for gm 6cut and chrysler 8 cut which is very very time consuming! so when buying a duplicator, buy it for that purpose..to duplicate

as far as the hpc blitz vs framon 2..thats like talking about pc vs mac everybody sways one way or another...as for me i am a framon 2 fan! and i will tell u from my experience why i am a fan..

First of all there is no math that u have to do for using this machine lol...u just dial the machine using two diff dials for spacing and depth...and yes u can carry the blue depth guide book with you or u can use ur laptop for ur key code software to see the key cuts and both will show u the depth and spacing..

bottome line=u have to carry something with u when ur using both key machines anyway..hpc uses blue index cards and framon uses the blue book..its all the same

Second...i have networked with a lot of locksmiths and they always come to the same conclusion...the framon stays calibrated no matter what..unless u drop it from the table pretty much...the hpc i always hear locksmiths state that they will be in the middle of a lockjob cutting a key for some car and after making a key or two they find out the machine needs to be calibrated...so the hpc doesnt stay calibrated for long when ur doing a lot of mobile work

Third...I have used both machines before..and one thing i found out is that when using determinators i like using the framon when cutting keys...for some reason i get more keys to turn better and impression better when using the framon...it seems to me that the straight feed makes a difference when cutting the keys to get it to turn in the lock..but this is just what i have experienced...

so if i was a newbie i would buy a framon 2 to start off..

[keysman]

..
as far as the hpc blitz vs framon 2..that's like talking about pc vs mac .. ..

Very true, but the framon is a better machine

..
conclusion...the framon stays calibrated no matter what..unless u drop it from the table pretty much...
..

Actually there are numerous stories of a Framon falling off the back of a truck.. pick it up, dust it off.. back to work.

..
for some reason i get more keys to turn better and impression better when using the framon...it seems to me that the straight feed makes a difference when cutting the keys to get it to turn in the lock..but this is just what i have experienced.....

It is easier to make an accurate half cut with the Framon

..
so if i was a newbie i would buy a framon 2 to start off..

There are a few other points that should be noted:
Customer service : If you call Framon Manufacturing .. the owner ( son of the inventor ) answers the phone.
There is a learning curve to using a Framon.. the more you know and understand about spacing and depths.. the shorter the curve .

This comes in handy if your machine is an area ( think industrial maintenance dept) where non lockies have access to it.
Unless you know how to use the machine it is unlikely you could make a useable key.

The HPC requires index cards to operate.. without the correct card.. say for a new vehicle or lock,
your basicly out of luck. (Yes , You could use a micrometer index card). Not the case with the Framon all you need are the spaces and depths and you are good to go.

The Framon is also easier to make slight adjustments to the spaces and depths on the fly.. just adjust by the required amount and cut...


Over all if I could only have 1 machine, the Framon II would be it .