Semi-pick proof lock

[vov35]

As for it being bump proof, due to the 2 shear lines, I believe the chances of it bumping without engaging the rotation of the outer plug would be quite slim.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWcvCI1CsJE
SFIC being bumped despite having two shear lines.

[xBMW M3 GTR]

Vov35, wouldn't the trap pins in my design prevent it from being bumped successfully? I understand that it could easily be bumped and catch either shear line, but if it happens to catch the outer plug and is rotated slightly, it would engage the unpickable trap pins

[vov35]

well, I'd imagine that you'd first deliver impact and then apply force. since your legitimate, not-trap shear line is always going to be lower, one could skip over the trap line.

[xBMW M3 GTR]

True vov35. Maybe this could be eliminated with stronger springs and more pins. Seeing as I consider this a more secure lock, I think it should have 6 or 7 pins. Well no lock is perfect.

[vov35]

well, we won't really know until we get a good metal model to screw with

[vov35]

aaand double posting because I came to the realization that you could have the middle pin smooth across the top and have the key pin have the trap pin hole in it... that would let you reduce the chances of a successful bump by mixing the two possibilities

[xBMW M3 GTR]

just for the sake of buping up security, maybe an anti bump pin in one of the chambers. I know chances of successful bumping with this lock may be slim, but for security, sometimes slim is just too big a chance, ya know?

[xBMW M3 GTR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev1hvFhOR74

Heres the youtube link to the design of the lock. Sorry it took so long to get up. Just obtained a dry erase board and decided to use it to demonstrate my idea through a video which i believe to give a better explaination than text andpictures could. Hope you enjoy and tell me what you think.

[mh]

Cool idea, demonstrating it with a video!

Just some initial comments:
Looks like the keyway is painted upside down, but that shouldn't make a difference for everything else.
At 5:36 you are destroying a spring - but in reality you would choose a longer driver pin (after all, the plugs shouldn't turn with no key inserted), but then it would work differently.

Overall the lock looks to me like:
If you pick it to the outer shear line, it will trap.
If you pick it to the inner shear line, it will open normally.
If you pick some pins to one shear line and some pins to the other, it will not turn at all.

Cheers
mh

[xBMW M3 GTR]

Cool idea, demonstrating it with a video!

Just some initial comments:
Looks like the keyway is painted upside down, but that shouldn't make a difference for everything else.
At 5:36 you are destroying a spring - but in reality you would choose a longer driver pin (after all, the plugs shouldn't turn with no key inserted), but then it would work differently.

Overall the lock looks to me like:
If you pick it to the outer shear line, it will trap.
If you pick it to the inner shear line, it will open normally.
If you pick some pins to one shear line and some pins to the other, it will not turn at all.

Cheers
mh

I am from the United States and our standard locks are installed with the pins on top pushing downward. Not really sure of the advantages or disadvantages of which way is the "right" way.Though I do know there is some kind of liquid to be put into locks to prevent bumping which would only be able to stay in with a lock that has its pins on bottom, pushing upward. If you are aware of any advantages or disadvantages of the better direction to have the lock installed, Id love to hear it.

I do notice I didn't draw everything to scale as far as pin sizing goes. If this lock were to be made, I know the variable sized driver pins would be a must to work with the double shear line design in order to prevent the plugs from rotating without a key inserted.

And as you mentioned about the over all things you noticed in the design, the wonderful thing is, it over all looks like it would be difficult to pick in the first place due to interference from the upper shear line. Although it is possible to pick it correctly, just one improperly picked pin will set of the trap.

[mh]

Yes I've seen differences in lock mounting in different places in the world.
I just thought that your keyway shape / profile looks odd.

As for the "just one pin wrong" - if one pin is not set correctly, then nothing will turn at all. If you want that effect, then you need a short 3rd pin that stays in the outer plug shell.

Cheers
mh

[xBMW M3 GTR]

Yes I've seen differences in lock mounting in different places in the world.
I just thought that your keyway shape / profile looks odd.

As for the "just one pin wrong" - if one pin is not set correctly, then nothing will turn at all. If you want that effect, then you need a short 3rd pin that stays in the outer plug shell.

Cheers
mh

The shape of the key way isn't exactly how I want it to be on this design, i just drew any old key way. I focused more on the workings of the lock other than the key shape, though I would probably try to come up with more unique key way which would make it more difficult to even get picks into the lock

Well what I meant by the one wrong pin, was lets say all but one pin was picked correctly. Just that one pin binding the lower shear line would engage the trap mechanism. I'm not exactly focused on stopping the plugs from being turned, but focused on the trap mechanism engaging from picking.

Also, I'm starting to notice with my design, it might be easy to engage the trap pin mechanism. Though I'm not too worried about that. Id rather have that trap pin mechanism kick in early so the lock picker would know they're now out of luck as far as getting through that door, give up, and leave. Hmmm...that gets me thinking...maybe some type of wireless sensor could be built into the lock. If the trap pins engage, the sensor would send a signal to a home alarm and activate it. I don't know much about electronic alarms or anything of that sort but I'm sure something could be made along with this lock to set off some kind of alarm.

[mh]

Again, I believe that when the other pin stacks are set correctly to the inner shear line, their driver pins will block the outer shell from rotation, and nothing will turn until all pin stacks are set correctly.
The trap pins will not engage.

[xBMW M3 GTR]

Again, I believe that when the other pin stacks are set correctly to the inner shear line, their driver pins will block the outer shell from rotation, and nothing will turn until all pin stacks are set correctly.
The trap pins will not engage.

Looking into it right now, but having a little trouble understanding exactly how the design wouldnt work

[vov35]

@MH

there's only one shear line.