Pen cap key cover

[FarmerFreak]

This is almost a serious solution to the problem of someone taking a picture of your key to decode the cuts. But really it's just me playing around with a bic pen lid and a spring.

[femurat]

Just Fantastic

[Evan]

@FarmerFreak:

That is an interesting idea but rather bulky... I can see that idea working if you only have one or two keys that you would want to keep private... How would you suggest someone with an entire ring of Grandmasters keep their keys covered like that?

I can sight read a few types of keys if I have them in my hand, but someone taking a picture? You would have to get the keys away from my first... I think the type of problem you are trying to prevent here is an insider with limited access to higher level keys where they might be able to take a picture of it to try and reproduce on their own later...

I wouldn't worry about someone casually taking a picture of keys from a distance, you really have to be up close and personal to get an accurate enough picture to use for decoding...

~~ Evan

[vov35]

generally the photographed key exploit is done when the keys are lying unattended on a desk or are borrowed. in that case they can walk up and slide the cap off

[FarmerFreak]

Evan you might find this an interesting read (though most of it will be basic review for you). http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~savage/papers/C ... Decode.pdf

The article is from a couple years ago, so it's nothing new. I posted this possible solution because there are a few people that will find it interesting.

I don't see this as a serious solution, at least not as is. You are right, it's too bulky. This is really nothing more than me messing around with a bic pen lid. Aslo I don't envision the method of taking pictures and decoding the key to be a real threat to the average person. I somehow doubt the average person would have someone with that level of expertise/equipment going after their stuff.

[Evan]

@FarmerFreak:

It was an interesting concept... If you wouldn't mind, it would be interesting to see a picture of how you modified the key under the keycap (Bic pen cap) and how you attached the spring... You could make the sleeves less bulky by making them out of thin sheetmetal but that would require quite a bit of precision bending and would only be worth that kind of work for "VIK's" or Very Important Keys...

As to what to do about site reading keys like that, perhaps using thinner key shaped ingots which match the bow shape and keyblade length of the keys you wish to obscure, interleaving them on the ring on either side of an important key you wish to protect... It wouldn't be absolute protection but it would hide the key bittings most of the time in the situations we are discussing here...

That article looks very interesting, thanks for linking it here, I will read it in depth later this evening and get back to you in a PM about my thoughts on it...

~~ Evan

[FarmerFreak]

If you wouldn't mind, it would be interesting to see a picture of how you modified the key under the keycap (Bic pen cap) and how you attached the spring...

I see how it is, you just want to get the bitting off my key.

The thin wire is super glued in place, the spring is also held more securely by super glue at the end of the pen lid. It worked for a little while without the glue, but kept falling apart...

Not that it's important to this discussion. The key is a six pin key, but the lock only uses the first five of those cuts. Because I did stuff to it...

[Evan]

If you wouldn't mind, it would be interesting to see a picture of how you modified the key under the keycap (Bic pen cap) and how you attached the spring...

I see how it is, you just want to get the bitting off my key.

The thin wire is super glued in place, the spring is also held more securely by super glue at the end of the pen lid. It worked for a little while without the glue, but kept falling apart...

Not that it's important to this discussion. The key is a six pin key, but the lock only uses the first five of those cuts. Because I did stuff to it...

That was quite a bit of work there with a dremel...

Super Glue is so wonderful isn't it, except when you stick yourself to what you are trying to glue :-O

That cylinder looks like its a master ring cylinder from a unit lock or exit device... "70" keyway ? Is my guess but I can only see one side of it... :-p

Thanks for the pic, I was wondering how you would have gone about attaching the end of the spring to the key... Question answered...

~~ Evan

[Wizer]

I can sight read a few types of keys if I have them in my hand, but someone taking a picture?

I don´t see a big threat of someone photographing an average Joes home or car keys when he is using them. But to keep your keys visible, hanging from your belt or laying on the table, is a security problem.
Most pin tumblers have so many cut depths and small variations that I could not sight read them, but here we have allmost only Abloys.
I can sight read an Abloy classic or Profile and some car keys from 2 meters pretty easily. Some High Profile blanks are harder to determine. Sometimes when a customer comes to have a Classic copied and sets it on the counter, if I want to show off, I look at the key without touching it and go to key machine and cut his key for him. This makes the customer feel really un easy and usually I tell them to keep their keys in their pocket all times, or upgrade their lock.
An invention like FarmerFreaks would have its place in the market. I bet that every one or two customers would choose a key like this even if it cost 2-3 times a normal key would.

[Wizer]

One or two out of hundred, I ment to write...

[Dpruente]

Picture taking is a real threat. I can take a picture, use a known measurement, say from the bow or the length of the blade, and sit on the computer in cad and recreate the key using those measurements, the same way you would when using the scale on a map to read distances. Worse yet, I can take the same cad image and send it to my cnc machine and cut the key on the spot, eliminating the work of finding a key blank, even on restricted keys. I've made some of my tools based on pictures i've found of them on the internet

[cledry]

I would like to see someone take a photo of a key and "simply" send it to a CNC and make not only the cuts plus the blank. It won't work, there is no way a photo is going to have enough detail to get the profile of a key blank.

[MacGnG1]

I would like to see someone take a photo of a key and "simply" send it to a CNC and make not only the cuts plus the blank. It won't work, there is no way a photo is going to have enough detail to get the profile of a key blank.

its already been done. there was a paper written several months ago about some university students that did it. cant remember the name of the project, but it was posted on here.

also check out an older post on hackaday: http://hackaday.com/2009/09/22/photogra ... plication/

[cledry]

I would like to see someone take a photo of a key and "simply" send it to a CNC and make not only the cuts plus the blank. It won't work, there is no way a photo is going to have enough detail to get the profile of a key blank.

its already been done. there was a paper written several months ago about some university students that did it. cant remember the name of the project, but it was posted on here.

also check out an older post on hackaday: http://hackaday.com/2009/09/22/photogra ... plication/

No that isn't the same thing. That part, the cutting of the key I do not doubt, that is relatively simple. If someone can sight read a key it is as good as done. What I was referring to was the claim that the blank itself could be made from a photograph. You would need three very good photographs, one of each side and one of the tip view. The chances of that happening are quite slim IMHO, not impossible but highly unlikely. Certainly not enough to warrant a key cover, especially when said key cover could be slipped off.

The other thing not mentioned is the fact that the photo used in the project was shot with the key on the same plane as the camera sensor; if you alter this relationship even slightly you will get perspective distortion. Perspective distortion can be corrected in software if you have a reference, for example another key blank.