twisted keyway

[dls]

What if the keyway in a lock was twisted like a drill bit and the key had to be rotated as you insert it.
The pins would have to be arranged in a radial pattern following the helical path of the keyway so it would be more complicated to build. The key could be double sided and reversible or not.

Picking would be fairly difficult as the keyway design prevents a standard pick from being used.
Drilling would be difficult as there would be up to 6 drill points.
Impressioning i dont know about this one has anybody impressiond a helical key?
Cutting the key would be difficult with standard hardware although a double sided key could be cut in a simple lathe.
The nature of the keyway would block all but the first two pins from being being seen.

Any other thoughts on this lads

[squelchtone]

Have you seen the lock from the early 90's that had a snake like key which had pivoting multi segmented blade bitting and when the key was inserted in the keyway it would wind left and right like a snake, and basically no straight picks could go in that far without being flexible enough to get deep enough into the cylinder to touch the deepest pins.

One sold on ebay last month, and I know there is a patent drawing out there somewhere.

Squelchtone

Your lock idea sounds like a Dix lock btw, I think they used a cork screw style key, but I'm not sure how or what kind or pins or pin orientation it used.

[vov35]

this makes me want to make a wafer lock with a snake like key, where the holes in the wafers are small enough, and the amplitude of their movement is large enough to prevent insertion of a pick....

[dls]

Does the f3d key look a little like a corkscrew, i think the idea would be be best suited to a rim cyl type lock of the cruciform type imagine it like a cruciform key but twisted now there is another idea.

If you took a cruciform or + profile key there would be four sets of pins every ninety degrees if you twisted it the first and second set would be offset by say ten degrees and so on for the full five sets of pins.

If there where ten differs in the pins and four sets of five there would be a total of twenty pins by ten differs thats 20 to the power of 10 =10,240,000,000,000 differs

Never mind the difficulty in drilling out the pins there would be twenty drill points or you would have to use a hole saw. Thats five layers of pins offset by ten degrees by four directions

[dls]

Six pins by four rows by ten differs gives 63,403,380,965,376 thats over sixty three million million possible key differs

[Evan]

What if the keyway in a lock was twisted like a drill bit and the key had to be rotated as you insert it.
The pins would have to be arranged in a radial pattern following the helical path of the keyway so it would be more complicated to build. The key could be double sided and reversible or not.

Picking would be fairly difficult as the keyway design prevents a standard pick from being used.
Drilling would be difficult as there would be up to 6 drill points.
Impressioning i dont know about this one has anybody impressiond a helical key?
Cutting the key would be difficult with standard hardware although a double sided key could be cut in a simple lathe.
The nature of the keyway would block all but the first two pins from being being seen.

Any other thoughts on this lads

As for 6 drill points ? ROFL... Ok, if you need/want to do it the hard way...

I have removed both vandalized rim and mortise cylinders using a lot fewer than 6 holes without ever drilling near the shearline(s)...

~~ Evan

[dls]

That right there mounting screws would be the target for me on many locks as they often dont have any drill protection if you where selling a lock it would be some marketing bs to add in realy unless there was other systems in place to protect other options for destructive entry.

[Rickthepick]

20 drill points... come on, what about just drilling the plug out, no messing lol

seems like a good idea though, the key could be fixed on bearings in a handle so it rotated itself in as you pushed. Would look good too.

[dls]

The number of drill points would be more of a sales or marketing thing,drilling the plug would be difficult with the anti drill pins placed at multiple angles around the body and the taperd plug would make plug extraction by pulling much harder.

[squelchtone]

Here's the patent of the lock I saw on ebay earlier this year

http://www.google.com/patents?id=kLcaAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

Squelchtone

[dls]

Interesting id be worried about the wear on all those links over time though

[LocksmithArmy]

well... after much searching i found some of these flexible keyed locks... im ordering some... expect a full review... thanks for the info squelchtone... i already have ideas as to how to pick it.

as far as the twisted key idea... id love to see one built lol. that would be really cool. i bet itd be dang hard to pick

[Rickthepick]

Heres an idea for someone with a little more time than me:

get a reasonable sized drill bit.
then using femo or other moulding clay take a mould of the bit and wind out in reverse to leave the keyway.
Bake it or whatever you do then machine in some pin chambers into your clay housing.
The hard bit would be dimpling the drill bit to make a key, you would need a pretty hard drill.
All that would need to be housed in some fashion with springs and drivers.
But it would be a prototype model.

Only problem i foresee is that it would lock easilly, but unlocking might be difficult as the key may just wind outwards.

[femurat]

Great idea Rick

For the prototype there's no need to have a steel key: I'd try to mould the key too. It will be a lot easier to drill the dimples.

A bow could be enough to prevent it from entering more in the keyway while you turn in CW. As you said, you'll need to push it towards the lock while turning it CCW.

Cheers

[dls]

I was thinking of some extruded brass bar with a straight cruciform keyway warm it up and twist it then drill the holes.