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New Master combo 1590D

lock picking techniques, videos, lessons, skills and building them so you can pick locks in nanoseconds.

Moderators: Kaotik, Chucklz

New Master combo 1590D

Postby Lauren » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:49 pm

I just bought Master's 1590D combo lock. It's rather cool, since it can be reset to various alpha-numeric combinations. I tensioned the hasp to see if I could feel the gates, and later found myself unable to open the lock with the known programed combination. I don't know if I damaged the lock or if it's just cheap mechanically. I'm thinking of taking the lock apart to check for vunerabilities. Not a bad lock for six bucks, but the lost combination has me concerned.
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Re: New Master combo 1590D

Postby mh » Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:28 am

Hi,
Can you take some pictures when you take it apart?
Cheers
mh
"The techs discovered that German locks were particularly difficult" - Robert Wallace, H. Keith Melton w. Henry R. Schlesinger, Spycraft: The secret history of the CIA's spytechs from communism to Al-Qaeda (New York: Dutton, 2008), p. 210
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Re: New Master combo 1590D

Postby Lauren » Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:39 am

I'm not set up for taking pictures...sorry. I did take the lock apart this morning, and I see no way to tension the hasp because all three tumblers have false gates. I thought about possibly inserting a probe near the hasp to read the gates, but even that appears difficult with the additional casting material near each hasp opening. Moreover, there's thin shim material that's 'H' shaped that makes things hard to probe between tumblers. The gates can be easily read if one were to drill a small hole directly center in the back of the lock, but that would be destructive and undesirable. The design of the lock is very simiular to the conventional 0-9 four wheel re-setable padlocks. The body is made from zinc casting and reminds me of those old slaymaker combination locks. I still think at least one of the tumbler gates could be probed through the hasp hole and then deduction to get the rest of the combination. There's a small, limited amount of combinations anyway, according the instructions. I welcome pictures from anyone else, thankyou.
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Re: New Master combo 1590D

Postby Lauren » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:45 pm

I just found a way to determine the first number of the 1590D. If you look on the back of lock, you will most likely find a small 1/8 in. hole at the rim. I have seen this with three locks that I have experimented on, and is perhaps the result of poor tolerances. Master's obvious intention was to create a design that prevents the back plate from spinning, while saving on manufacturing cost by using parts from another Master lock.

I took the reset tool that comes with Kwikset's Smartkey locksets and bent the tip to a gentle sweeping 90 degree angle. This tool becomes a probe that nicely inserts into the slit previously mentioned. By rotating the dial clockwise, I can feel the existance of the 3 little posts that protrude from the first tumbler, closest to the backplate. If you take one of these locks apart, you'll notice that 2 of these posts are rather close together (note: these posts are not the same distance from the edge of the tumbler) and the other one is further away. By rocking the probe, I have been able get its tip between the 2 close posts. Now, this merely become a fixed reference point, where addition is used to arrive to the first number. Now, I have a two alph-numberic combination padlock. :wink:
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Re: New Master combo 1590D

Postby Lauren » Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:08 am

I just made a new probe from .015 in spark gap gauge material. I bent the tip like before, and ground the width to perfectly fit between the two closest posts on the first tumbler. With the lock that I'm working with the combination is set to: 8-1-9. I found the stops to be at J,3,5 and 9 when turning the dial clockwise. I found the closest stops to be 3 and 5, where the probe fits between at 4. If I add 4 more to 4, I get 8, which is the first combination. Now, all I have do is try all combinations for the second number. The third number falls in place perfectly with light tension. Where there's a will, there's a way! :wink:
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Re: New Master combo 1590D

Postby Lauren » Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:23 am

I just purchased a 1590D at Home Depot to put my tool to the test. I removed the combination off the back of the lock without looking at it. The probe tool went in nicely, and within a minute I calculated the first number of the combination. Five minutes later I had opened the lock (4-J-7). The funny thing is, the combination on the lock, as printed on the instruction sheet, is 8-N-6. If I was a regular consumer, this lock would be going right back to Home Depot.
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Re: New Master combo 1590D

Postby LocksmithArmy » Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:46 am

wow that is awsome.
congrads on your tool...

did you try the original combo. just to see if maby both work and there is more of a default defect than you first thought.
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Re: New Master combo 1590D

Postby Lauren » Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:39 pm

The original combo didn't work. Someone at the factory screwed up. See the Master 1590D at www.http://masterlock.com . Search by model number.
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Re: New Master combo 1590D

Postby Lauren » Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:46 pm

Sorry, the actual website is at http://www.masterlock.com.
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Re: New Master combo 1590D

Postby mh » Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:10 am

Are you sure it's not simply a L-R-L vs. R-L-R confusion?

Cheers
mh
"The techs discovered that German locks were particularly difficult" - Robert Wallace, H. Keith Melton w. Henry R. Schlesinger, Spycraft: The secret history of the CIA's spytechs from communism to Al-Qaeda (New York: Dutton, 2008), p. 210
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Re: New Master combo 1590D

Postby Lauren » Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:20 pm

As I mentioned earlier, the lock simply opened under an entirely different combination. The lock opens like traditional master locks: right,2x's Left, right. The Chinese programer who set the combination screwed up, or the person who put the printed combination on the back of the lock.

Anyhow, let's keep the conversation in perspective. Master claims this lock is shim proof. I'll give them that. But, the lock has a serious flaw and it can be opened easily and systematically within five minutes on average. I can't wait to see what the 1590i has to reveal. A lock with a joy stick takes some imagination.
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Re: New Master combo 1590D

Postby LocksmithArmy » Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:35 pm

Have you tried telling master... Tell them to plug the hole...
I'm excited to play with the 1590i myself, did you read Michael Huebler's article?

The New Master Lock® axis™ Combination Padlock –
An Inside View

It was great
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Re: New Master combo 1590D

Postby mh » Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:11 pm

about the 1500iD Speed Dial:
make sure you get the latest update of the paper from http://toool.nl/ - I had to correct some mistakes about symmetries - and also have a look at the Flash mhVisualizer app.

Regarding manipulation of that lock, we will have a workshop at https://har2009.org/

Cheers
mh
"The techs discovered that German locks were particularly difficult" - Robert Wallace, H. Keith Melton w. Henry R. Schlesinger, Spycraft: The secret history of the CIA's spytechs from communism to Al-Qaeda (New York: Dutton, 2008), p. 210
Image
mh
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Re: New Master combo 1590D

Postby Lauren » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:37 am

Huebler's article was very well done! Thank you for the link. The 1500i is an incrediably complex lock. I can't wait to play with one. It looks like Staples is carrying them.

As far as telling master to plug the hole on the 1590D, I've had some bad experiences in dealing with lock manufacturers, especially in telling them to fix something. Most of the time it's about the cost to fix versus the reality that someone actually might use the technique to attack the lock. Most thieves are simply not that sophisticated. I do have a simply solution that still allows the lock to have the hole (for possible water drainage?) and would eliminate my technique.
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Re: New Master combo 1590D

Postby Squelchtone » Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:27 pm

I'm having issues with this new 1500iD

The factory combo of RIGHT RIGHT UP UP is not working for me each and every time I enter it.

How hard or often do i have to hit the shackle to reset the wheels? It is not very repeatable.

For instance, right now I will with the shackle with my palm, and press RIGHT RIGHT UP UP and pull on the shackle , but it wont open. I have not yet removed the decal on the back nor have I changed the combo

I have to slam the lock really hard for the reset to occur. I have a feeling this won't go over very well with ignorant non lock savvy consumers.

Any tips or pointers on operational smoothness?

Thanks
Squelchtone
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