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SARGENT Lock questions

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general questions here.

Moderators: digital_blue, zeke79

SARGENT Lock questions

Postby mikitric » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:26 am

Hey I've been picking for a while now with a variety of locks, but for some reason I have trouble with SARGENT deadbolt style locks. I believe these are 7 pins, and when I do open them, they are usually via hit and miss. I have one in particular that I have not been able to open at all. Unfortunately I cant just open it to see whats going on. Does anyone know what kinds of security pins there are, or other things that might help? Thanks a lot!
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Re: SARGENT Lock questions

Postby yoyoboy » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:26 am

Sargent locks are manufactured to very close tolerances, and their pin design allows them to have a large MACS, which further inhibits picking. Try spping with a hook. Not sure about the security pins.
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Re: SARGENT Lock questions

Postby Dak » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:40 pm

I believe sargent locks are considered advanced and thusly can not be discussed in th eopen forums.
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Re: SARGENT Lock questions

Postby MacGyver101 » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:36 pm

Dak wrote:I believe sargent locks are considered advanced and thusly can not be discussed in th eopen forums.

If so, that's news to me.

As yoyoboy notes, Sargent cylinders are certainly made to better tolerances (and have more pins) than a typical Kwikset... but the cylinders I have (which I believe to be factory-pinned) do not even have security pins, let any secondary locking mechanism that would be considered "advanced". :?:
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Re: SARGENT Lock questions

Postby raimundo » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:14 pm

Sergeant, muh, not advanced, unless its something more specific, like SG833 or whatever. Lot of keyways, usually institutional lock types, nothing special, probably loaded with master pins. The master pins could suprise a newbie when the plugs 180 degrees turned.
Wake up and smell the Kafka!!!
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Re: SARGENT Lock questions

Postby yoyoboy » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:41 am

Sargent does make some locks with side pins and such to accompany it's traditional keys(signature, XC) as well as Keso, which is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
Ray, I'm sure you know, but some other people might not, that Sargent and Sargent&Greenleaf are two different companies.
And SG 833s traditionally use meddeco cylinders.
Does anybody know if other cylinders will fit? Does it take a standard Medecco Removable Core cylinder, or something specific to that padlock?
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Re: SARGENT Lock questions

Postby mikitric » Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:05 pm

First of all, you guys are way awesome. Thanks for the quick replies. But concerning the lock, i didnt notice any side pins, and i did manage to pick it one direction (just not the way needed to open the lock). I figure at the very least i can just use a plug spinner and call it a day. But yea, im definitely noticing the closer tolerance. Well, thanks again all!
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Re: SARGENT Lock questions

Postby Squelchtone » Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:56 pm

raimundo wrote:Sergeant, muh, not advanced, unless its something more specific, like SG833 or whatever. Lot of keyways, usually institutional lock types, nothing special, probably loaded with master pins. The master pins could suprise a newbie when the plugs 180 degrees turned.



SARGENT and Sargent & Greenleaf are two seperate companies both owned by different companies. SARGENT is an ASSA Abloy Group Company, while Sargent & Greenleaf is a Stanley Toolworks company.

and to set the record straight, SARGENT locks are just a well made lock somewhere higher on the scale from Schlage, and maybe as high as BEST.

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Re: SARGENT Lock questions

Postby Legion303 » Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:04 pm

Sargent is brutal. I'm up to 4 stacks on a 6-pin Medeco Biaxial (yes, still...shut up, I'm working on it) with the sidebar in, and my Sargent 6-pin no sidebar lock is the only one I have yet to pick successfully.

-steve
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Re: SARGENT Lock questions

Postby mikitric » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:22 am

yoyoboy wrote:Sargent locks are manufactured to very close tolerances, and their pin design allows them to have a large MACS, which further inhibits picking. Try spping with a hook. Not sure about the security pins.


So i've continued working on this lock but have the hardest time finishing it. I'll get the majority of the pins set, but then sooner or later me pushing on a pin will reset the whole thing. Well that's not the problem so much as i struggle to even get some pins set at times. Can a lock start setting from the middle, rather than just front or back? In general are there any tips for dealing with locks like this where it is made to such close tolerances? And sorry, what are MACS? and im guessing spping is single pick picking? Where i learned there was different acronyms etc, k thanks!
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Re: SARGENT Lock questions

Postby datagram » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:28 am

mikitric wrote:
yoyoboy wrote:Sargent locks are manufactured to very close tolerances, and their pin design allows them to have a large MACS, which further inhibits picking. Try spping with a hook. Not sure about the security pins.


So i've continued working on this lock but have the hardest time finishing it. I'll get the majority of the pins set, but then sooner or later me pushing on a pin will reset the whole thing. Well that's not the problem so much as i struggle to even get some pins set at times. Can a lock start setting from the middle, rather than just front or back? In general are there any tips for dealing with locks like this where it is made to such close tolerances? And sorry, what are MACS? and im guessing spping is single pick picking? Where i learned there was different acronyms etc, k thanks!


MACS = Maximum adjacent cut specification

It means the biggest difference in bottom pin sizes for adjacent chambers. For example, a lock with depth 0-10 and a MACS of 7, you could not put a 0 pin next to a 9 pin. MACS exists to prevent back-cutting.

dg
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Re: SARGENT Lock questions

Postby Legion303 » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:15 pm

Got my 6-pin a couple of weeks ago. The trick seems to be extremely light tension and a bit of luck. If you're getting some sets but resetting, it sounds like you just need to change your picking order slightly.

-steve
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Re: SARGENT Lock questions

Postby mikitric » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:39 am

sweet! finally got it. Thanks guys and gals :)
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Re: SARGENT Lock questions

Postby MacGyver101 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:46 am

mikitric wrote:sweet! finally got it.

Congrats! :D
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Re: SARGENT Lock questions

Postby Evan » Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:39 pm

datagram wrote:MACS = Maximum adjacent cut specification

It means the biggest difference in bottom pin sizes for adjacent chambers. For example, a lock with depth 0-10 and a MACS of 7, you could not put a 0 pin next to a 9 pin. MACS exists to prevent back-cutting.

dg



Except on locks like Sargent and Corbin (Pre-System 70 depth system) where a #1 depth is the shallowest cut and a #0 (10) depth is the deepest cut...

~~ Evan
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