Padlock recommendation

[Squelchtone]

Ok, I have some pics of the JOBOX and now that I know how this thing works, we can figure out what kind of padlock to recommend and why.

Padlock in the UNlocked position looking from the front of the box:


Inside the JOBOX, the padlock sits in a carrier and a special bracket is sleeved over the shackle:


The sleeve over the shackle has a hole in it for a bolt in order to keep the shackle stationary:


The lid of the box has 2 big hooks, one in foreground, one in background, and the hooks move up and down in to and out of the area between the shackle and padlock body:


Oh look, instructions inside the lid! A couple of the distances are much more important than the others:


Here is a familiar American Lock Model 5200 US. After I saw how the hooks and padlock interacted, it was obvious that a key retaining padlock would not work:


Testing proved that a Medeco Metrolock would fit just fine into the recess, but the long shackle version I have was not the correct size for an operational test:



I always knew of these boxes but never quite understood how the padlock actually interacted with the lid in order to lock the container. This simplified doodle explains what is going on inside the JOBOX.


So here's our problem. An American 5200 or an Abloy 330 will not work, or if you do manage to get them to work, the operation of unlocking and locking the box will be very annoying. Most padlocks can be opened, the shackle popped, and the cylinder rotated back to the locked position and key removed. When the user is ready to lock the padlock, they simply push the shackle into the lock body and it snaps shut.

The American 5200 which is usually key retaining and any Abloy padlock will have the following problem. You walk up to the JOBOX, insert key, open padlock, and now your key is stuck in the padlock and you cannot walk over to the OTHER lock to unlock it without first locking up the first padlock you opened. In this scenario, you will never open the JOBOX. If you carry 2 keys with you, then you can open both padlocks, and lift the cover off the JOBOX, but then you have to either leave the keys in the padlocks all day at the worksite, or remove them which requires locking the padlocks. At the end of the work day, you simply cannot close the cover and push the padlock bodies so they engage their shackles, because they are already closed so the cover won't even close all the way because the 2 hooks cannot go down far enough. So now you have to get your 2 keys out, open both padlocks, close the cover and lock both padlocks.

In a padlock like the Master No.5 or the American Series 50 which are both recommended on the inside instruction decal, they key is not retained, so a user can open padlock 1, remove key, open padlock 2, remove key, and open the lid of the box. At the end of the workday close the lid, and push both padlocks deep enough so they engage the shackle and click shut.

As you can see above, I tried to see if a Medeco Metrolock would fit inside the recess and it does, but you would have to make sure that the one you order is non key retaining and check if the proper size shackle is available to work within the dimensions set fourth in on the instruction decal.

I agree with the other users' sentiment that American Lock cylinders with their serrated pins are difficult to pick, but if you are really hard core, get an American Lock padlock with a Medeco core. The padlock will be longer than the Master No.5 or the American Series 50, and will be flush when locked, and it will stick out .75 inches when in the unlocked position while the cover is open. The advantage to getting the Medeco cored American is in case you do not fully trust someone on your day shift who has access to the Master or American key, you can rest easy knowing they're not making a copy at Home Depot on their lunch break, and if they give the keys back at the end of the day, you know that you have them all and nobody is coming back later that night to burn you by taking all the nice tools.

I think that covers everything, if you have any other questions, feel free, otherwise, visit your local locksmith shop and do come back and tell us or show us your new padlocks. Oh, ask for KA (keyed alike) padlocks, so 1 key can open both in the morning instead of fumbling for the other key.

Squelchtone

[tacedeous]

first off, squelchtone: great post I honestly didn't get the locking mechanics until I saw your drawing... interesting design... one difference I see, is that on his box. when the lock is unlocked, it pops out, revealing the body and if my memory proves true, part of the shackle...now I'm intrigued... I know he has some pics of this, because when he bought it we where both blown away by its engineering and complexity, yet simple operation ... again the brand I'm referring to is a "KNACK" brand box...which is considered "the best, most durable and high security" by tradesmen in my area...

[seagull369]

Sorry for the lateness in getting back to you all. Haven't been able to get online in the past few days,,,

Squelchtone, once again, fantastic job with the pics and diagrams. Some of the best I've seen online.

So you know, having a lock that doesn't let go of the key until it's back in the locked position again isn't really a problem for me. I have one like that on there now, and all I have to do is open the lid and push the lock shut. I get my key back and the box stays unlocked. When I'm done for the day, I unlock the lock, close the lid, then close the lock again. A little annoying I guess, but for a potential increase in security I can certainly live with it. Regarding the longer shackle: I've found they can sometimes work in a pinch with a little finagling/modification, but for the most part it's more of a headache to use.

I have 2 Dayton brand and 1 Rigid type "knackboxes." The Dayton's have a nifty design which uses a spring loaded latch allowing one to secure both ends of the lid (unhinged side) with just one lock. The Rigid has a more basic design which requires a lock at each end. If you only use one on that 1, it's possible someone could pry open the other side and gain (at least partial) access inside.

So, if I've understood everything correctly I should look into (and please correct me if I'm wrong):

- Junkunc-American Lock 1205, 5200 or any with a Medeco core
- Evva mcs
- Abloy 330

I'll bring that Master #5 along with me when I go to the locksmith for sizing purposes.

[Squelchtone]

So, if I've understood everything correctly I should look into (and please correct me if I'm wrong):

- Junkunc-American Lock 1205, 5200 or any with a Medeco core
- Evva mcs
- Abloy 330

I'll bring that Master #5 along with me when I go to the locksmith for sizing purposes.

I'm glad you liked the photos and diagrams, thanks for the compliment.

You DO NOT want an American 1205, because it's an aluminum body and far too easy to drill. Junkunc was the name of American Lock many moons ago, so just ask your Locksmith for an American Lock Series 50 padlock or walk into a Medeco shop and ask for an American Lock with Medeco core or a Medeco lock with a Medeco core. show them the No.5 padlock and tell them their padlock can be a wee bit longer, other wise they may not have a model that will work for you.

The 5200 series is a military issue padlock and I'm not sure a locksmith will have one, but I know ebay has them all the time. The US version has weather proof coatings on it and is key retaining, so I suppose a locksmith would have 5200's or they may have that body and shackle size under a different number.

For the Abloy 330 visit ABLOYusa.com or call them up in Texas and order over the phone, they're nice to deal with. Ask for the Exec keyway or Protec if they sell it, I'd stay away from Classic or Profile just because they're so common, not to say that makes them any easier to pick but there are tools made for them that let's a person destroy the lock and get in. They will ask if you want it to be rekeyable/servicable, and you can say no to that. If you get two padlocks, get them Keyed Alike and get a couple keys and a couple spare keys.

As for the EVVA MCS.. That seems very exotic and I'm not sure if it is available in padlock format.

good luck,

Squelchtone

[Jeckel]

I would recommend, Best due to there key way, make them hard to pick, becuase you can't fit the pick in there very easy, and movement is very limited. You have to order Best online to get the key way you want. Like 1A1M1, there is no room to fit anything but the key, if you are worried about some one drill the lock, they will probably use a crow bar,near the hinges.

[raimundo]

Ive read Raymond's posts and deduce that hes a trading locksmith with some years and experience, so I was surprised to see him reccommend the junckunc locks.
I have seen them with tubular key mechanisms, but what I mostly associate with junckunc are those small doublesided key that have either the less common W shaped warding or the single center milling key. these have a stack of wafer that have only one spring that is common to all the wafers, and I don't consider these secure at all, they are less pickproof than a master lock. Put a tensor blade in the middle of the keyway and stroke a slimline sanded half diamond down one side of the tensor, then pull it out, stroke it on the other side, countering the first stroke since in both left and right strokes, you are stroking the same discs. This or a third stroke in the place where the first stroke went will normally open the lock. It is optimized for picking. You can reset the same wafers by stroking opposite, and only the loose or not set at shear wafers will move if you stroke lightly.
Please tell me that you knew that Raymond

[Squelchtone]

if you are worried about some one drill the lock, they will probably use a crow bar,near the hinges.

I like the idea of a paracentric keyway Jeckel, but if you look at my photographs of how the padlock is shrouded inside the container when in the locked position, you will note that there is no way anyone is attacking the shackle with any kind of cutting or prying implement.

Only the bottom of the padlock is exposed, and if the correct size padlock is chosen, when locked it will be recessed from the surface by 0.75 inches making picking more difficult because it is not natural to use a tension wrench in such a manner.

Raimundo: I think you're talking about the H10 series locks. very stout and heavy but like you said, pretty easy to rake open using your described method.

have a good day,

Squelchtone

[Jeckel]

There is no way anyone is attacking the shackle with any kind of cutting or prying implement.

Only the bottom of the padlock is exposed, and if the correct size padlock is chosen, when locked it will be recessed from the surface by 0.75 inches making picking more difficult because it is not natural to use a tension wrench in such a manner.
Squelchtone

I was referring to other places on the box, not where the lock is, up by the lap top.

[seagull369]

Just wanted to let y'all know I picked up four 5200's from a local locksmith @ around $82 total. That was about $20 more than what Amazon could do, but the cute 90+ year old geiser had me sold the moment he opened his mouth.

The locks seem pretty sturdy and I haven't been able to open 'em sans key yet (tho I'm far from a pro). It does irk me too see vids online of peeps opening these suckers in like 3 secs flat, but what can ya do =(

I want to thank you all for the great info. you've contributed in this thread. I doubt I woulda been able to get this much unbiased advice on my own.

[Engineer]

Squelchtone, that was a really good post.

I don't see Joboxes over here in the UK, but I'm going to keep an eye open for them, as it's really quite a clever locking mechanism they have come up with.

It impresses me with how much thought has gone into the design. Probably most of the work of designing it, was just one individual as well. Yet another unsung engineer, who will probably never get their brilliant work publically recognised. I really think being an engineer has to be one of the most under-appeciated professions by the general public of all - And that's not just because of my name!

I'm glad to see the beancounters haven't compromised the security of it by saving metal on the hook that fits under the padlock as well. I see that sort of thing so often that it sets my teeth on edge now when I see a good product ruined that way.

Thanks for this post.

[nothumbs]

The American 5200 is available in a non key retaining version, and not all 5200 models are military. I've three sitting in their retail boxes on my desk, all non key retaining.