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Gemini shield

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general questions here.

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Gemini shield

Postby jos weyers » Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:08 am

question:

I opened the Gemini shield in the dutch Toool competition suitcase.
Should something like that be discussed in the advanced section? (to which I don't have access)
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Re: Gemini shield

Postby w00tb0t » Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:29 am

Hello from the past, (I always giggle when I see future timestamps on forums due to different time zones)

Although I am a very new (forum member) here I would assume that that lock would be restricted to the advanced section (of which I am not apart of yet).

I wish I could play around with the "egg" and the gemini locks though. They look like a lot of fun to pick.
w00tb0t, the patron saint of all things w00t, grand medic extraordinaire, Unix guru, Input fuzzer, general SQL nuisance, packeter, lockpicker, and electromagnetic savant; and because you cant make tea with potatoes.
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Re: Gemini shield

Postby AlexMHH » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:44 pm

The mechanism and nature of the lock does seem like material destined for the "Advanced" forums, seeing how it is generally used to guard high-value and high-risk assets. This is the first instance I've ever heard of someone making this accomplishment (though I'm admittedly not on the Advanced forums either), but from what I hear, it's a hell of a feat! For what it's worth from a beginner, great job!
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Re: Gemini shield

Postby l0ckp1cker » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:43 am

Jos,

I never heard of that lock before (shame on me?), do you have more info about it?
Opening the lock might be advanced material, but simply discussing the features of the lock isn't as far as I know ;)
Started picking on 23 Feb 2009. Current Stats: Picked 164 different locks so far.
Latest Victory: ABUS EC75/50
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Re: Gemini shield

Postby mh » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:42 am

It's a 5 pin-in-pin design with all pins accessible from the front (there are also 7 pin-in-pin versions).
They do offer very good protection against vandalism.

The amount of protection against manipulation of a lock that has all pins exposed at the front - well, judge for yourself.

Cheers
mh

P.S.: There are also versions with an additional electronic locking system, used on train ticket machines.
"The techs discovered that German locks were particularly difficult" - Robert Wallace, H. Keith Melton w. Henry R. Schlesinger, Spycraft: The secret history of the CIA's spytechs from communism to Al-Qaeda (New York: Dutton, 2008), p. 210
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Re: Gemini shield

Postby w00tb0t » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:04 am

mh wrote:The amount of protection against manipulation of a lock that has all pins exposed at the front - well, judge for yourself.


Let me offer up a quote from Neal Stephensons Cryptonomicon.

......have taken to going around conspicuously armed as a way of pointing out the absurdity of those rules. Their point is this: who gives a crap about concealed weapons anyway, since they are only useful for defending oneself against assaults by petty criminals, which almost never happens? The real reason the Constitution provides for the right to bear arms is defending oneself against oppressive governments, and when it comes to that, your handgun is close to useless. So (according to these guys) if you are going to assert your right to keep and bear arms you should do it openly, by packing something really big.


Concealing your mechanism from manipulation is a good thing, but its rendered moot if it is near impossible to manipulate the mechanism in a way that opens the lock.

Not that this lock is perfect, and the fact that it has been picked is good proof.

Its just that this lock likes to go around "conspicuously armed" :D with a 4 shot derringer loaded with blanks...............................

So in circular logic, your right :lol:

Just posting what went through my head when I read that.
w00tb0t, the patron saint of all things w00t, grand medic extraordinaire, Unix guru, Input fuzzer, general SQL nuisance, packeter, lockpicker, and electromagnetic savant; and because you cant make tea with potatoes.
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Re: Gemini shield

Postby mcm151201 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:54 am

I really like the idea behind it. Layered security is a very important concept. It's also more than saying "Now you have to pick two locks" - it's "I take my security seriously." I kinda like the magnetic ones more. They are easier to unlock from what I've seen, but probably less susceptible to vandalism such as super glue.
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Re: Gemini shield

Postby l0ckp1cker » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:30 am

Where can I find one of these locks?
Is Gemini the brand name?
Started picking on 23 Feb 2009. Current Stats: Picked 164 different locks so far.
Latest Victory: ABUS EC75/50
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Re: Gemini shield

Postby w00tb0t » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:30 am

The brand name is Drumm Security,

You can get them at the host site, http://www.drummsecurity.com/g.php

Or if you are stateside you can get them quicker here https://securitysnobs.com/Drumm-Security/
w00tb0t, the patron saint of all things w00t, grand medic extraordinaire, Unix guru, Input fuzzer, general SQL nuisance, packeter, lockpicker, and electromagnetic savant; and because you cant make tea with potatoes.
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Re: Gemini shield

Postby jos weyers » Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:19 pm

mcm151201 wrote: I kinda like the magnetic ones more. They are easier to unlock from what I've seen, but probably less susceptible to vandalism such as super glue.


the mechanical ones work VERY good against superglue.
(if properly maintained, ie. lubed one a year)
more info on the lock can be found in Han's article op the dutch toool website:
http://toool.nl/images/a/a6/Drumm-geminy.pdf
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Re: Gemini shield

Postby l0ckp1cker » Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:53 am

Too bad they are so expensive, they look like a really nice challenge to pick, especially with those special mushroom pins in there...
Started picking on 23 Feb 2009. Current Stats: Picked 164 different locks so far.
Latest Victory: ABUS EC75/50
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Re: Gemini shield

Postby jos weyers » Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:09 am

l0ckp1cker wrote:they look like a really nice challenge to pick, especially with those special mushroom pins in there

actually, the mushrooms don't make it any harder. The outer pins can be decoded quite easy and that's the only spot that has mushrooms. Ones you have the outer pins set, you are left with a "normalÎ… 5 pin lock ;-)
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