pinning for a master key system

[teshub]

Hi,

I've been pulled into a relatively large master keying project as the "key number generator" (meaning I am creating a list of key numbers which work). I figured that part out with some help from the posts on this site. Thanks a lot for those.

My question is actually about the hardware. I am now helping with pinning the locks in the project. I find it tedious to take pins out of a lock (throw away the keys) and then to repin the lock. Is it possible to buy locks without pins in them? If not, is there any way to make repinning 150+ locks easier?

Sorry if this is an obvious question but I don't have any experience in the locksmith business. Thanks a bunch in advance!

Teshub

[2octops]

Nope...that's the way to do it unless it's SFIC then they come from the factory uncombinated..

[gibson]

when setting up a master key system, you have to take into account the length of the top pins as well. if you have top pins that are too long, it might be difficult to insert the key (also, depending on the kind of lock you are pinning up, blowing off the cover of the 'bible' ) if the pins are too short, and you don 't have enought spring tension, you run the risk of having master wafers slip and becoming jammed. so, the best bet is also to dump the top pins and springs as well.

[cledry]

Hi,

I've been pulled into a relatively large master keying project as the "key number generator" (meaning I am creating a list of key numbers which work). I figured that part out with some help from the posts on this site. Thanks a lot for those.

My question is actually about the hardware. I am now helping with pinning the locks in the project. I find it tedious to take pins out of a lock (throw away the keys) and then to repin the lock. Is it possible to buy locks without pins in them? If not, is there any way to make repinning 150+ locks easier?

Sorry if this is an obvious question but I don't have any experience in the locksmith business. Thanks a bunch in advance!

Teshub

Why is it tedious, it takes almost no time at all. At least you are working with new, clean stuff with no master pins to dump. You can buy 0 bitted actually usually 1 bitted but it is still the same amount of work.

[Evan]

Hi,

I've been pulled into a relatively large master keying project as the "key number generator" (meaning I am creating a list of key numbers which work). I figured that part out with some help from the posts on this site. Thanks a lot for those.

My question is actually about the hardware. I am now helping with pinning the locks in the project. I find it tedious to take pins out of a lock (throw away the keys) and then to repin the lock. Is it possible to buy locks without pins in them? If not, is there any way to make repinning 150+ locks easier?

Sorry if this is an obvious question but I don't have any experience in the locksmith business. Thanks a bunch in advance!

Teshub

@teshub:

You need some more experience if you think that 150 locks is a "relatively large master keying project"... Just wait until you are doing projects with thousands of cylinders...

~~ Evan

[teshub]

@teshub:

You need some more experience if you think that 150 locks is a "relatively large master keying project"... Just wait until you are doing projects with thousands of cylinders...

~~ Evan

Oh, no! Thanks. I'm very happy with my regular day job being a mathematician. That's partly why I find it tedius to repin the locks. I don't have much mechanical inclination to begin with.

Thanks to others for their posts. I'm a little disappointed that there's no easier way but at least I know that we're not doing it the wrong way.

[minifhncc]

Hmm that's interesting about the top pin sizes...

Here (in Australia), I have never seen a master keyed lock (for complexes with about 400 individual locks) having varying sized top pins...

However, I have noticed that they use strong springs. Probably for that very purpose of master pins slipping...

[gibson]

the top pins don't have to vary in size, although in high security locks they often do to prevent a 'comb' style attack. what i've seen though has been locks coming from the factory with top pins that might be a shade too long for ease of use when used in a master key system, and they all tend to be the same size. what happens is that the user might have to force the key into the lock, or they might not get it in all the way and then turn the key, resulting in a broken key stuck in the lock. on the inside lids of the LAB pinning kit they have a recommended top pin length for a given cut by a particular brand. manufacturers will use a standard top pin length to speed up the process of making a lock. i guess the best way to do it is to pin up a cylinder with master pins in it and try it with the change key and the master. if it's smooth, then you're home free and no change is necessary. if you have difficulty with either one you could only change the pin chamber that's hanging up

[Evan]

Oh, no! Thanks. I'm very happy with my regular day job being a mathematician. That's partly why I find it tedius to repin the locks. I don't have much mechanical inclination to begin with.

Thanks to others for their posts. I'm a little disappointed that there's no easier way but at least I know that we're not doing it the wrong way.

@teshub:

How did you get drawn into this project as the number picker ?

Did you know how the master keying of locks works or did you have to
read something about the process to learn how it was done in order to
provide your function as the "number picker" ?

~~ Evan

[globallockytoo]

Hmm that's interesting about the top pin sizes...

Here (in Australia), I have never seen a master keyed lock (for complexes with about 400 individual locks) having varying sized top pins...

However, I have noticed that they use strong springs. Probably for that very purpose of master pins slipping...

That is totally false mini. All correctly built master key systems in Australia will use the correct sized driver pin for the chamber. The MACS applies just as much, if not more so, in master key systems. Unless you are talking about Bilock which has no driver pins. Or Abloy classic or derivatives that use master keyed discs.

[minifhncc]

I guess then I haven't seen correctly built master key system?

Mind you, I've only seen them for C4 profile oval cylinders and they're construction keyed locks (for apartments).

I think they were ordered from Norton construction keyed at the factory... Although I might be wrong on that.