Slimline Picks on american locks?

[The Lock Artist]

Well, I have been picking for quite a while now, and I think that I am ready to get a new pick set. I currently have a 14 piece kit from southord and now that I have a better idea of the basics of picking, and a feel for the insides of different locks, now I should get something a little bigger to give me more experience with a wider variety of picks. I have heard great reviews on both the C6010 and the MPXS-62. The main difference between the two (other than 10 picks and $10) is the fact that one has all slimline picks, and the other has both standard and slimline picks. I have never used a slimline pick, but according to the website, even though they are made for euro locks, they also work well on american ones:

Slim Line lock picks were designed especially for European and Japanese locks, which have longer, narrower keyways than most pin tumbler locks found in the U.S. We've found that these "Slim Line" lock picks work well on all U.S. pin tumbler locks, especially those with small or narrow keyways. Traditional European and Japanese locks are designed similarly to USA made locks with one exception...there is less room to work in. Using picks that are specifically designed for longer, more narrow keyways with smaller tool heads and a sleek, slim shape will make the job much easier...

I have never picked a japanese lock, but the Idea of having more room to work work inside of the lock sounds appealing, but I don't want to sacrifice durability and end up bending a pick (I have never broken/bent a regular pick before). So, should I go for the narrower slimline set, or stay with the thicker (and possibly more durable) standard picks? Sorry for the wall of text.
-John

[cyrano138]

I'm hoping someone else will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think those sets are way too big for just about anyone. Granted I've only gone as far as Americans and Best cores, but all I've ever needed was a couple of hooks (maybe two slimline and two standard), and tension tools (make a bunch but I'd recommend a Peterson pry bar as well). If you want to get some extra picks grab a few rakes and a ball pick for wafer locks. I can't imagine what variety of pin and tumbler locks would necessitate 62 picks. Maybe someone who's been doing this a while can enlighten both of us.

If you want to try different types of locks, that's a different story. Then it's time for dimple picks (though some people just use a half diamond), disc detainer picks, tubular picks, cross picks, etc.

I'd recommend getting a nice case (like the one that houses the mpxs 32 from southord) and adding your own selection of picks and wrenches, as there don't seem to be any inexpensive sets out there that have all the vital stuff in one place.

**As I've said once before, I really like toool's beginner blend set. Even though it's called 'beginner' it seems pretty complete.

Jack

[gibson]

the biggest difference between southord's standard picks and the slimline is in the width of the shaft. as far as the thickness of the pick goes, they are bth about .020 in. the narrower shaft of the slimline makes it more maneuverable in a restrictive keyway. the are also very effective on less restrictive (american) keysways, as long as you don't use your picks like a lever, which you really don't want to do anyway.

[Bob Jim Bob]

I started a few months ago with a 14 piece set and still haven't used them all. The half diamond, hook and tension wrenches usually do it all.

[raimundo]

The big leather wallets of picks include some picks that add nothing to your abilities, and many exact dupicaltes,

if I were going to buy picks I would at least get the set that has some slimline picks in it.

you need a medium and a short hook
a halfdiamond with a thin shaft, not one of those thick shafts with an eggtooth on it that they call a halfdiamond. the shaft fills the keyway and the pick is left with little room to move.
rakes are useful if you are about opening locks, if you believe that spp is the only way to do it, you can skip the rakes, you're not in any hurry.

If you learn to make tools and make the ones you have found useful you will find you have a very small set, but it can do anything you need.

a lot of people say the ball and double ball are useful on wafer locks, but a halfdiamond does that better.
On the bogota rake I thin out the design and round the shafts for manuverability, the peaks are narrow at the top because they can lift the pin as high on a narrow peak as they could on a wide peak, but the wide peak fills the keyway and there is no need for it.
the pins leap off the peak and into a wide valley that allows them to hang up whereever they catch hold, The Double ball pick can be seen as the opposite of the bogota rake, it has a narrow space between the balls that no pin can enter, fully to the bottom, meaning the designer of this pick just didn't really get it. the ball picks try to fill up the keyway with balls and let the pins ride over the round bumps of the pick looking for a place to catch that shearline. The ball picks are the exact opposite filling the keyway with the round parts cut out of the bogota, crowding the pins upward
wafer locks are easy any way, and they do not require much from a pick, the wafers have less up and down movement than pin tumblers so a pick only has to move wafers very little. and they will catch the shearline easily.

Use your ball picks to grinde out something useful or leave it at the edges of the worksite where the people watching might grab it.
always tell the people you don't trust that the ball pick is the most useful one, so thats the one they will try to grab.

large picksets have to be counted every time they are put away if you are hoping to keep them all. I like picksets so small that you don't really need to count anything. you can look and know if its all there.

people who like ball picks because they can get wafer locks with them also like them because they came in the set and the purchaser feels that there must be some use for them, so they defend them rather than feel that they bought something useless.

[Bob Jim Bob]

The ones with balls on them are picks? I thought they were blanks for when you were ready to make your own.

[cyrano138]

The big leather wallets of picks include some picks that add nothing to your abilities, and many exact dupicaltes,

if I were going to buy picks I would at least get the set that has some slimline picks in it.

you need a medium and a short hook
a halfdiamond with a thin shaft, not one of those thick shafts with an eggtooth on it that they call a halfdiamond. the shaft fills the keyway and the pick is left with little room to move.
rakes are useful if you are about opening locks, if you believe that spp is the only way to do it, you can skip the rakes, you're not in any hurry.

If you learn to make tools and make the ones you have found useful you will find you have a very small set, but it can do anything you need.

a lot of people say the ball and double ball are useful on wafer locks, but a halfdiamond does that better.
On the bogota rake I thin out the design and round the shafts for manuverability, the peaks are narrow at the top because they can lift the pin as high on a narrow peak as they could on a wide peak, but the wide peak fills the keyway and there is no need for it.
the pins leap off the peak and into a wide valley that allows them to hang up whereever they catch hold, The Double ball pick can be seen as the opposite of the bogota rake, it has a narrow space between the balls that no pin can enter, fully to the bottom, meaning the designer of this pick just didn't really get it. the ball picks try to fill up the keyway with balls and let the pins ride over the round bumps of the pick looking for a place to catch that shearline. The ball picks are the exact opposite filling the keyway with the round parts cut out of the bogota, crowding the pins upward
wafer locks are easy any way, and they do not require much from a pick, the wafers have less up and down movement than pin tumblers so a pick only has to move wafers very little. and they will catch the shearline easily.

Use your ball picks to grinde out something useful or leave it at the edges of the worksite where the people watching might grab it.
always tell the people you don't trust that the ball pick is the most useful one, so thats the one they will try to grab.

large picksets have to be counted every time they are put away if you are hoping to keep them all. I like picksets so small that you don't really need to count anything. you can look and know if its all there.

people who like ball picks because they can get wafer locks with them also like them because they came in the set and the purchaser feels that there must be some use for them, so they defend them rather than feel that they bought something useless.

Huh. So that's what a smackdown from Raimundo feels like.

[The Lock Artist]

The ones with balls on them are picks? I thought they were blanks for when you were ready to make your own.

From my understanding of it, the half ball helps with disc/wafer tumblers (they are the same thing) and helps the ball glide from wafer to wafer. A double half- ball which has two half balls o the same side of the pick, Is like a half ball, but also helps with raking. The ball and double ball picks, are the same as the half-ball and double half-ball picks except they are geared toward locks with wafers on both sides of the keyway. I actually prefer a diamond or half diamond, as they seem to help with picking and raking in both pin-tumbler and wafer tumbler locks.

I have never even heard of a bogota rake, as you can see, I am no expert (despite what my friends think) on lock-picking. About telling the people I don't trust that the ball pick is the most useful, I think it would be better not to tell them about my lockpicks at all.

Raimundo, I am curious, what does your pick set have in it? You seem to have a lot more experience on the subject than me.

[cyrano138]

Well I have to admit it and give credit where credit is due, Raimundo. I only have one wafer lock but I tried a little experiment and opened it with a ball, and then a half-diamond, and the half diamond did just as well (maybe just a bit faster). But sure enough, I stuck this weird little mini-bogota (that came in the HPC tyro pick set) in there and it opened immediately, as in, insert, push up, opened. Thanks for the information!

Jack

[The Lock Artist]

Is there a website where I can buy a bogota by itself? I have a pick that looks similar to online pictures, but not quite the same.

[cyrano138]

I was actually wondering the same thing. If anyone has any suggestions, please let us know. I'd like to try a few. I was looking at Serepick's titanium 'flats' set, but it's forty bucks...

[cyrano138]

Found a few in case anyone like the Lock Artist and myself were wondering. I won't post links so you'll have to search, but Serepick seems to sell the best ones, and Southern Specialties and TOOOL both sell versions with regular handles. Hope that helps and doesn't violate any rules.