Pin tumbler locks with perfect holes.

[hytuu12345]

Hi guys, I've recently read and came across the information that people are able to pick locks because there is a flaw in the holes which contain the pins, which allows people to get the first pin in position. sorry if i dont have pictures to show what i mean. But recently i've taken apart tons of unwanted locks and am horrified to see that the holes that contain the pins, are all aligned perfectly.

I cant find where i got the information from anymore, but if i recall correctly, it is said that because the holes that contains the pins are not drilled perfectly in a straight line, that is that allows lock pickers to pick locks because of that flaw. So back to the story, i found these locks and ALL OF THEM have holes(that contains the pins) that aligns perfectly. i've got all my tools ready, tension wrenches and hacksawblades to start fabricating the picks. But before i go any further, i just want to check if i will be able to pick these locks that have perfect linings of holes. Or are these locks like lock proof or something? because i've made a practice work station to practice lock picking. all i'm left with is the picks. and i am very afraid that if i make the picks and start picking i wont get anywhere because the locks that i'm trying to pick into are 'un-pickable'.

Well, hope you guys understand what i mean. thanks for taking the time to read my question, and if you need pictures to prove my statement, i'll be glad to private message you guys the mail(because i am almost certain that i wont be able to upload pictures on this site just yet).

once again, thanks.

-andre.

[cledry]

The differences in pin alignment are very minute on most good locks, but there are indeed differences. Some locks, Arrow for example were notorious for having alignment problems. So much so that the same plug had to go back into the same shell when rekeying or else they wouldn't work. However when rekeying Schlage for example I can swap plugs and they work.

[dauce]

The Alignment imperfections are often not visible to the naked eye, and even with a good set of digital calipers. It will work just continue on:)

[Solomon]

It isn't that the chambers aren't drilled in a straight line, it's actually the tolerances between the pins and their respective chambers which makes picking possible. Pins aren't all the exact same dimensions, same goes for the chambers. Imagine a lock with the same sized pin chambers, then each pin stack is a different width. The widest pin stack is the only one that binds; the rest are floating in dead space while under tension. Only that widest pin can bind, and when it hits the shear line the small click you feel is from the plug suddenly shearing that pin stack and coming into contact with the next binding pin.

Manufacturers do try to make everything as close as possible but as for making everything perfect, it just can't be done. There has to be a tolerance between the components otherwise nothing would move, and it's impossible to machine 2 parts with 100% identical dimensions. Everything is different in its own way, just the differences are so minute you can't see them with the naked eye.

[hytuu12345]

OH MY GOD. thanks so much guys! this helped a lot! i actually went to cut open two sets of locks to see the pin holes. and i think i understand what you mean by the plugs! because the plugs that came out of the two locks that i cut came in different shapes and sizes, some looked like sandglasses, and many more. thanks so much for the quick responses guys i really appreciate it!

cheers! have a great day ahead, cledry, dauce and solomon!

[raimundo]

if you could make a perfect plug and cylinder and fill it with perfect pins, theoretically it would be quite secure, though not necessarily against a bogota rake that works all the pins at once, making them dance around the shear line. it would still probably open, because you could hit the sweet spot on all five or six pins at once.

also imperfection would be introduce when a grain of sand got into one of the pin holes changing the way it manipulates.

the idea of all the holes in a minutely imperfect line is a simplification of a complex problem, a pin that is binding, with the binding directly in the middle of the pin will act differently than when a pin is binding toward the end of the pin,

If a short pin a bound between plug and cylinder near the end of the pin it will cause the pin to tilt more than a long pin caught near the end.
there are probably more complexities that I haven't thought of but it is the inequality of the pins that makes it lock and it is the same thing that makes it possible to pick even if the plug is perfect.

[hytuu12345]

I see. Thanks a lot for the help guys! Have stencilled out my picks and I'll be fabricating them tomorrow at the workshop! Really appreciate the help guys! I guess I'm just really new to this, and I have just borrowed a few books from my library to read up on as I'm not as knowledgable as you guys. I guess if I really understood the whole functions of a lock and not just the pins and plugs, ill have a better grasp of things and ideas.

Once again, really guys, thanks!

[Buzo]

Don't let a lock intimidate you by how it looks. A lock is built to be opened and will tell you exactly how once you learn to understand its language. Each lock is slightly different from the next but usually follows the same basic fuctionality. Once you learn what the lock is telling you by how the pick feels on the pins you will be able to open it. Don't get frustrated, take your time, have fun with it, and good luck!

[MarkMcGrath]

It reality the only place for theoretical perfect manufactuering is in space, until then everything is imperfect.

[hytuu12345]

Really, thanks for all the responses. I know someone has probably posted this in the forum, and i might get scolded for not being 'hardworking' enough to search the forum. But trust me, i've googled and searched this forum for advice on what i'm gonna ask next but to no avail. I'm going to be making my own picks and i've downloaded some essential templates. And i've searched high and low for proper advice on what picks would be best to use for a beginner, but (as i've said) to no avail except for 'small hooked/feeler picks'. Are there any other picks that you guys would advice beginners to use?

P.s:(no offense to the people selling/buying/who buy picks and stuff)but i'm not looking at buying picks because i have a 'fabrication background' if thats what you call it, and i just simply enjoy making and creating things with my hands(LOL), so i'm gonna be making my picks. okay i have to add its also because i have the tools necessary to make them. i admit if i dont have tools such as a bench grinder and stuff, i would probably consider purchasing them. so yeah..

Once again, thanks so much for the help guys!

[hytuu12345]

oh and also, sorry to add on i couldnt find the edit post button. So far based on the templates the advised length of a pick that i've came across is said to be 12centimeters/4.76inches. would anyone who made their picks back this up and advice on the 'shaft' of the pick, if i should pay any special attention to it or anything(like making it erm.. thicker or something to avoid breakage or whatever). ok i realize i'm really sounding really paranoid about things asking about size(ok i feel that this sentence came out wrong lol)and recommended types of picks and stuff. sorry about that!

[hytuu12345]

Don't let a lock intimidate you by how it looks. A lock is built to be opened and will tell you exactly how once you learn to understand its language. Each lock is slightly different from the next but usually follows the same basic fuctionality. Once you learn what the lock is telling you by how the pick feels on the pins you will be able to open it. Don't get frustrated, take your time, have fun with it, and good luck!

thanks a lot for the advice mate! about three-four years back i once tried picking an extremely old lock below my cupboard for fun(cupboard type of lock, er.. road apples i forgot it's name. it! it's not made of plugs/pins its made of like flat lines... it i swore i had it's name because i wanted to learn how to pick those kinda locks too.... the type of lock i'm mentioning are locks that are. oh found it disc/wafer tumbler locks. better not forget it this time!)with just paper clips and i was so happy with it! i managed to pick it a few times just to make sure i was able to do it not just out of luck. but really i think it was purely luck because besides pushing the disc/wafer 'pins' up and turning the lock slightly with the paperclip tension wrench, i was just flicking and flicking the lock. then i moved on to doors and got so frustrated because youtube showed people picking doors with paper clips. how naive i was back then hahaha. i'm really so excited and psyched to start learning and practicing! haha.