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Beginner lock picks for New Zealand

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general questions here.

Moderators: digital_blue, zeke79

Beginner lock picks for New Zealand

Postby Keen Kiwi » Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:02 pm

Hi guys,

I want to get into lock picking (house and padlocks) and I live in New Zealand. I was originally going to get some bump keys and a pick gun but after reading some posts I realised that that wouldn't be the best introduction to lock picking (thanks Squelchtone). I've looked at most of the relevant threads about beginning the hobby and New Zealand picks and locks but I need some clarification before I buy something.

I understand that as a beginner I only need about 3 picks (half diamond, short hook and maybe a rake) and about 2 tension wrenches (to try them out) to start out. But being in New Zealand do I need slim-line picks or will the standard work? My house has a Schlage lock that fits a C SH5 120 key if that helps. It doesn't look small so it might work with the standard but I don't know what other type of locks there are out here.

The other thing is where I should buy from. A lot of the posts suggest places like southord.com, lockpickshop.com, lockpicktools.com and lockpicks.com. But I don't know which one would be best for a New Zealander. By the looks of it I'm going to have to pay on average like $30 just for shipping.

So does anyone know where the best place would be to buy from that gave me the choice of individual picks, the cheapest shipping price (although I would prefer speed over price I don't think it's worth paying for shipping that is twice as much as the product) and picks that work with New Zealand locks?

I'm thinking about getting the SP-07, SP-09, SP-11 (or the slim-line equivalents) for the picks and TW-18 or TW-23 for the wrenches. I havn't because the price and length of the shipping has put me off.

http://www.southord.com/Lock-Picking-To ... ement.html - for the picks
http://www.southord.com/Lock-Picking-To ... Tools.html - for the tension wrenches

I would appreciate any reply especially those from New Zealand or Australia. Also any other suggestions about picks and tension wrenches would be helpful.

Thank you very much, have a nice day,

Keen Kiwi.
Keen Kiwi
 
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Beginner lock picks for New Zealand

Postby ARF-GEF » Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:39 pm

I'm not sure what how tight the keyways are in New Zealand. The European lock companies' lock usually require slimline picks, the US locks tend to be content with the standard one.
Schlage is US one, but I wouldn't rush to a decision based on only 1 lock. It's unusual to have US and Europen locks mixe, but I've never been to NZ so I'm not sure.
Look around what lock your house your girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse your family and your friends have and it's much better to decide after you already have a bunch of names.
If you really can't decide (not too many New Zealanders around here as far as I know) go for the slimline, but be careful, since they bend more easily than normal ones when you use too much force. Since there definitely are US locks like Schalge I would get 1 thin 1 normal.
But I think if you have Schlage probably the whole country has US locks but based on 1 lock I would not dare to extrapolate.
If you get slimlines, maybe it would make sense to get an extra hook (that will probably be to pick you use the most) as a spare one.

I think Southourd offers to ship much cheaper in an envelope if you only get a few picks. Maybe look into that.
I'm not too familiar with US sites, so I can't really opine about them. If you order from southord.com look for discount codes on the net first :)

I would not really recommend getting rakes. SSP is the beauty in this hobby. If you insist on a rake choose one. Definitely get the
As for tensions TW18 looks nice. I would try to make some from street sweeper bristles or windshield wipers (lots of guide out there).
If not I would probably "invest" in TW1 TW2 TW3. A variety of tension tools is important. But you will probably make your tension tools eventually anyway. :)

I Agree with SP-09, I would get SP10 instead of SP11(that one has some weaker spots, so 11 is more prone to breaking, but if you are delaicata (hard to do when raking :D) then the 11 might have a more effective form. So it's a bit of a trade off I would get SP10 though.)

SP 07 looks a bit too small for me but sp 06 is a bit too big. Of course you can always sand down a big one, but not that's more for a bit more advanced people who know what do they want.
So let's see what otehrs think about SP07 SP 06 I don't have those personally so hard to judge.

Have fun in picking and hopefully other people (maybe even Aussies and Kiwis (is that the right term? :D) ) will chime in.
To infinity... and beyond!
ARF-GEF
 
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Re: Beginner lock picks for New Zealand

Postby Keen Kiwi » Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:45 pm

Hey ARF-GEF, thanks for taking the time to read and reply.
Yeah my house is a bit old, I'd assume new houses now have different locks. I'll try to have a look around and I'll chuck a few names up, hopefully someone can contribute. I definitely won't rush into buying a certain type of pick until I know for sure what I would need, maybe I'll have to get a mix.
Thanks for the tip on the discount codes :D
What's SSP? I tried looking it up but no luck. Did you mean SPP (Single Pin Picking)? I agree, I might as well buy a bump key. Would it be good to have though, just to try out?
I've seen that you can get tension wrenches for beginners that reduce some of the force applied as beginners tend to apply too much. Is there any point getting one?
Pitty they don't have a middle sized one between SP 06 and SP 07. I have some wet and dry sandpaper but I wouldn't really know what I should size it down to.
You got both terms spot on! :D
Thanks for all of your help. You've given me some good advice. I'll try to have a look at some other peoples' locks and hopefully some other Kiwis or Aussies can help out (I appreciate anyone replying though).
Keen Kiwi
 
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Beginner lock picks for New Zealand

Postby ARF-GEF » Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:15 pm

SSP should have been SPP= Single pin picking. It's when your manipulate pins one by one instead of raking for example.
Sorry :)

Well bump keys are not as much considered to be part of the hobby. It is an effective way, but you need to have the right blanks and then it's no challenge. So it's not for the hobbiists but for the lcokies who only want results not the fun of picking. :)

You mean the tension wrenches with spring in them? No. They are crappy. The tension wrench gives you important feedback, (it relays to you the minute movements of the plug) that is killed by those with a spring in them, plus those won't really fit into too many keyways. I would definitely say don't get them, just get plain old simple tension wrenches, liek the ones
You should have a bunch of simple bent piece of steel that's all :) You can make perfect tension wrenches from a windshield wiper.
If you want to get the best tension tool, get a Peterson or Technical Entry prybar. But again: a variety of sizes of bent windshield wipers will serve you perfectly from the first lock to the last. No need for fancy stuff really.

Pitty they don't have a middle sized one between SP 06 and SP 07. I have some wet and dry sandpaper but I wouldn't really know what I should size it down to.

Yeah that's the bad thing. I don't really thin southord's half diamonds are so great. But the beasic Southord tools are quite cheap and rather well made so ideal for beginners.

As for people from that corner of the world: I think they are rare here unfortunately :( Most lockies are not to supportive of thsi hobby, but maybe asking for advice worth a try if you are in good term with one.
But most will probably think you are a criminal looking for infos.
To infinity... and beyond!
ARF-GEF
 
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Re: Beginner lock picks for New Zealand

Postby Keen Kiwi » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:58 pm

I thought you meant SPP. I recon bump keys are more of a trick than anything. Something you can show off with. So I won't go there. Plus I might have a bit of trouble getting past customs if I order things that are only meant to be for locksmiths, at least if I get picks I can say it's for the challenge not rapid entry.
Using a windshield wiper sounds weird but I've seen a lot of people talk about it so I'll give it a try :D
I've thought about asking some lock shop owners but I think they would help me. Especially if I asked for a blank so I could make a bump key :P
Yeah unfortunately I'm going to have to go into this hobby somewhat blind. I've only seen a few kiwis on this site. At least you have been able to help, thanks a lot :D
Keen Kiwi
 
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Beginner lock picks for New Zealand

Postby Keen Kiwi » Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:00 pm

Sorry wouldn't help me*
No locksmith here would think of lock picking as being a hobby.
Keen Kiwi
 
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Beginner lock picks for New Zealand

Postby Taubin » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:28 pm

From what I understand, most locks here are slim like the euro locks.

Also, make sure you aren't picking locks that are in use, get a practice lock at Mitre 10 or somewhere similar. You don't want to break your locks. You can also find practice locks on tradme or fleabay.
Just a newbie here to learn. Don't mind my overly stupid questions :)
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Re: Beginner lock picks for New Zealand

Postby Keen Kiwi » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:20 pm

Thanks mate, huge help with that info.
Are locks easy to break? I've heard that practice locks are not good to practice on because they're more loose or something so they're different to normal locks. Do you recommend any particular lock? I would also be keen to try a padlock.
Thanks heaps.
Keen Kiwi
 
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Beginner lock picks for New Zealand

Postby globallockytoo » Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:58 pm

95% of lock types found in NZ are identical to Australia. Namely, Lockwood products. Yes you will find Boyd (Southern hemisphere version of Schlage) and some other Asian made knock off's. But mostly Lockwood is considered the industry standard.
One One was a race horse, one one won one race, one two was a racehorse, one two won one too.

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Re: Beginner lock picks for New Zealand

Postby Taubin » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:40 am

Keen Kiwi wrote:Thanks mate, huge help with that info.
Are locks easy to break? I've heard that practice locks are not good to practice on because they're more loose or something so they're different to normal locks. Do you recommend any particular lock? I would also be keen to try a padlock.
Thanks heaps.


It's not that they are easy or hard to break, it's that if you do break one (no matter how hard or easy to do so), you have just ruined a lock on your house/safe/bike/whatever and need to replace it.

As for the practice locks, yes, some are going to be pretty crap, some are good. I personally purchased one from Mr Wizard here on the forums.

Image



It's done extremely well, and can be changed for all kinds of different settings. From 1 to 7 pin sets. It's great to practice with. The tolerances are really well done, and it's not a see through or pin see lock so you can't just keep looking where you are picking, it's more real world.

You can read more about it here viewtopic.php?f=4&t=57002 and maybe see if he still has some available. I believe he also sells them on Ebay. If you are going to pick up a practice lock that's easily repinnable (is that a word? It is now...), I would recommend it. One thing to note, it's a US standard schlage style, so the thicker lockpicks will work. I'm not sure if he has the thin ones, you may want to ask him about it in the thread.

Also, pick up some cheap locks from Mitre 10 or Placemakers or someplace. Padlocks and bolts, that way you are not using locks that are in use.
Just a newbie here to learn. Don't mind my overly stupid questions :)
Taubin
 
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Re: Beginner lock picks for New Zealand

Postby Keen Kiwi » Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:13 pm

Thanks globallockytoo, that helps me out a lot.
Taubin, makes sense. Mr Wizard's lock looks nice. But until I get my picks and I know I will continue this hobby I think I'll just get some locks from Mitre 10 Mega first. Chuck a few in a block of wood to make a practice door maybe. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll keep thinking about it.
At least I know now that I need to get slim-line picks. Do you guys think I should get the Slim-line picks with the thicker handle like the MSL-09 or just the Slim-line equivalents like the SLS-09?
Keen Kiwi
 
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Beginner lock picks for New Zealand

Postby ARF-GEF » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:37 pm

I would get the nicer handles, to get good at picking you will hold them a lot.
But if you don't want to spend that much on them you can always cover the handle with duct tape to make it thicker and more comfortable.
I guess this is really dependent on your personal point of view. Some people think it's a waste of money, since it's not that bad plus you can cover the handle part with duct tape.
I like my stuff "neat" so I prefer them with normal handle.
To infinity... and beyond!
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Re: Beginner lock picks for New Zealand

Postby Keen Kiwi » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:09 pm

Maybe I'll just get the hook pick with the handle and the other(s) just standard because I know that I'll be using the hook a lot more. I was just wandering if it made a huge difference.
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Beginner lock picks for New Zealand

Postby ARF-GEF » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:41 pm

Good idea. I don't think you will use a rake that much, so you can save on that, but a hook is the tool you use for SPP.
And when it comes to sth you will have in your hand for several hours a week why not put in a one time investment of 2$ and have one which is more comfy.
I think for you the critical part will be the shipping so look around.
The danger of picks getting taken away at the border is valid, I would encourage you to look up the legal background of picking owning and bringing tools in the country where you are.
In fact if you do you might just make a post about it :)
I'm sure the following "generations" of lockpick-interested Kiwis will be very grateful to you. :)
To infinity... and beyond!
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Re: Beginner lock picks for New Zealand

Postby Keen Kiwi » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:09 pm

You're right and seeing as I'm only going to buy like 3 or 4 tools than it's no big deal.
I've looked around and couldn't really see stand out prices for shipping. Most of the nz people in this forum get their stuff from Southord, so I think I'll follow suit unless anyone suggests anyone else... :D
I've already rigorously looked at legal issues regarding importing and owning in NZ. I found that it's legal to own lock picking tools unless you have the intent to use them for a burglary. Basically you shouldn't leave the house with them. As for importing, I'm pretty sure that's allowed. Although they may confiscate them if they have suspicion because you've had some criminal convictions in the past. I've read of some kiwi's having their picks taken by customs wanting to know why they were importing them. I'll have to email customs and verify the chances of any confiscation.
Good idea about the post. I could make one once I definitely know what the legal issues are. And if I get picks through with no problem of course. I know I would have found a definitive post helpful.
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