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Master lock anti-shim upgrade

Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.

Moderators: zeke79, keysman

Master lock anti-shim upgrade

Postby lockedin » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:51 am

If it has been addressed before, I apologize. These have started popping up in the local stores, and this video showed how it works:

Video
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Re: Master lock anti-shim upgrade

Postby MacGyver101 » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:09 am

It is a well thought-out redesign of the shackle: kudos to them for that.

They're more than a little disingenuous, though, with claims like "a new security threat has emerged: shimming!" (as if padlock shims just appeared on the market this year)... or that shimming only works on "over-sized contour-style locking latches, utilized by nearly all combination lock manufacturers" (except, of course, for their major competitors like Dudley, whose combination locks have never been able to be shimmed).

Anyhow, the video nicely shows the details of the new locking arrangement -- but the patent is here, if anyone's curious.
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Re: Master lock anti-shim upgrade

Postby lockedin » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:33 am

Thanks for the patent link. How did Dudley avoid this problem? Dead bolting?
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Re: Master lock anti-shim upgrade

Postby MacGyver101 » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:01 pm

lockedin wrote:How did Dudley avoid this problem? Dead bolting?

Exactly. Instead of being sprung, the Dudleys (and a number of other designs) are dead-locked when closed. (The way the Dudley mechanism is designed, closing the lock also scrambles the wheels: it's a neat design.) Dudley's patent predates the original Master combination lock patent by a couple of years as well -- so the problem was known and a working solution existed 78 years ago (in 1933), five years before Master received their patent. :) (And I should add: I have no particular affinity for Dudley locks... they were just the first example that came to mind.)

Anyhow, as I say... kudos to Master Lock for a nicely done redesign. It's just a shame to see it being sold with what sound like some pretty exaggerated claims.
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Re: Master lock anti-shim upgrade

Postby lockedin » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:42 pm

Image

So I went out and bought one today. Here's a pic of the anti-shim lock on the left, and the old one on the right.
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Re: Master lock anti-shim upgrade

Postby Squelchtone » Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:35 pm

It's too bad they felt the need to market it with an actual product name just like "Bump Halt" was. The new latch should have just been introduced quietly into their product line, but I guess so many people know how easy and comical it is to bypass the security of that combination lock they may want to get their name and reputation back.

Now if they could just start making all No 3 padlocks 5 pin stacks with spools and a little less slop in the cylinder, that would be an improvement. You almost think that for the last 40 years since their Tough Under Fire http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HvOhO8f0wc ad came out during the 1973 Super Bowl, their designers and engineers came into work and said "meh, good enough" as their motto. Glad they're starting to look at old flaws, so as already said, kudos to them, specifically to whomever is working there now who actually cares.

Thanks for the video link though, that was good to watch, and it is nice that they are finally responding to 5 years of youtube videos.

Squelchtone
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Re: Master lock anti-shim upgrade

Postby Mathias » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:08 am

"You can trust master lock".... Yeah I'd rather not but this is a very good idea. Master seems to focus a lot on strength and making their locks very hard to cut or pull apart (yet with all their talk about how strong their locks are people still seem to cut them all the time) but they don't seem to care much when it comes to their locks being picked open. I guess all the kids in the high schools are safe from pranks or having whatever is of any value now in their locker now.
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Re: Master lock anti-shim upgrade

Postby MacGnG1 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:20 am

that a cool new upgrade! but what are they gonna do about the millions of old master locks still being used? also, ive tried to shim a regular master lock and it didnt work but thats just my experience. Still a cool idea and its good that they are improving!
Nibbler: The poop eradication is but one aspect of your importance.
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Re: Master lock anti-shim upgrade

Postby Evan » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:00 am

squelchtone wrote:It's too bad they felt the need to market it with an actual product name just like "Bump Halt" was. The new latch should have just been introduced quietly into their product line, but I guess so many people know how easy and comical it is to bypass the security of that combination lock they may want to get their name and reputation back.

Now if they could just start making all No 3 padlocks 5 pin stacks with spools and a little less slop in the cylinder, that would be an improvement. You almost think that for the last 40 years since their Tough Under Fire http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HvOhO8f0wc ad came out during the 1973 Super Bowl, their designers and engineers came into work and said "meh, good enough" as their motto. Glad they're starting to look at old flaws, so as already said, kudos to them, specifically to whomever is working there now who actually cares.

Thanks for the video link though, that was good to watch, and it is nice that they are finally responding to 5 years of youtube videos.

Squelchtone


@Squelchtone:

Because most people only want to pay $5 or $6 dollars retail for the locks...

What you are asking out of the engineers would result in a product no one would buy because of the higher retail price point...

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Re: Master lock anti-shim upgrade

Postby MacGyver101 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:08 pm

To be fair to the designers at Master Lock, the "Speed Dial" combination lock that they brought out early last year is a pretty unique and interesting design. (One can easily argue about the quality of materials that go into it -- but from a manipulation and functional standpoint, it's pretty cool.)
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Re: Master lock anti-shim upgrade

Postby lockedin » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:59 am

MacGnG1 wrote:that a cool new upgrade! but what are they gonna do about the millions of old master locks still being used? also, ive tried to shim a regular master lock and it didnt work but thats just my experience. Still a cool idea and its good that they are improving!

Same experience here. Even before this improvement I was only able to shim knock-offs. American combo locks (also made by master) were also impossible. However, I have seen people shimming master locks on youtube.
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Re: Master lock anti-shim upgrade

Postby MacGyver101 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:11 am

lockedin wrote:Same experience here. Even before this improvement I was only able to shim knock-offs. American combo locks (also made by master) were also impossible. However, I have seen people shimming master locks on youtube.

I've only done it a couple of times, just playing around for curiosity -- so I may have just been lucky with the locks I had -- but I was able to do the pop-can shim trick pretty easily on the couple of Master combo locks I tried it on.
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Re: Master lock anti-shim upgrade

Postby Doctor Hexagon » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:21 am

What they should have done was switch to a deadlocking or ball bearing mechanism instead of inventing this. It is more difficult to shim this lock, but it is not impossible.

Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM5g1KPJYTQ

Enjoy. ^,.,^
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Re: Master lock anti-shim upgrade

Postby MacGyver101 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:39 am

I was taking a few other photos tonight, and grabbed a few of the new anti-shim latch.

The packaging has a new "Anti-Shim" logo on the front and back, but the exterior of the lock is otherwise unchanged:

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    Image

It appears that the first ridge on the new latch sits just inside the shackle, while the second sits right at the outside edge of the shackle (ready to trap any shims that are pushed straight down, as suggested in the video):

    Image

    Image
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Re: Master lock anti-shim upgrade

Postby DayZiro » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:13 am

Great pics Macgyver!

Doctor Hexagon mentioned double ball locking mechanisms for combo locks...I haven't seen these before. Does anyone have a model or pic of one they could post? Not sure how the mechanics of this would work for combination locks.
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