Breaking your own rules?

[sivlogkart]

First I do think LSI is a great idea, so don't get me wrong.

How many of your members are breaking your own rules? Are most of the members contributing here breaking your rules by doing so? My point is I am basically keen to join you, but I would either obey the rules or not join. Also I know a lot of other people in my position too.

[helix]

This has been discussed in 'The Oficial Launch Of LSI' thread, if I remember correctly.
I think that Zekeo had the same objection.
(Sorry if it was someone else).

Anyway, I think the outcome was basically that LSI need to cover their own back and reputation,
by introducing these rules and it came down to common sense.

If you aren't doing anything Illegal, you should have no problems.
Comply with your area specific laws and you should be right.

Do a search for "Official Launch" and have a look at the objections there, as they may already have been discussed.

[sivlogkart]

Thank you and I will take a look. I do use search before posting, but it is still possible to miss things.

[digital_blue]

Trak, I'm glad you brought it up. Actually, in response to the other thread that helix mentioned, we made a few minor changes to the M.R.o.C. I had thought that the new version was posted to the LSI website long ago, but I just check it and it was still the old version. So, I've updated the file. Please download the new one.

I'll make a post in the other thread as well to inform folks that they can download the newest release of the file.

Thanks!


db

[smithson]

Rule 6 is a bit of a worry though:

A member shall at all times be careful when sharing information on lock opening techniques to ensure that this knowledge, to the best of his or her abilities, is not shared with any non-member who may abuse it.

So he or she better not post anything about opening locks on the web, for example?

[digital_blue]

As for rule #6. We use a very similar rule here at lp101. Members are expected to be careful with the type of information that is shared on the public forums. As your friend d0ded0. He's been gettin acquainted with what can and can't be posted in the public forums for a couple weeks now.

Hope this clears it up.

db

[helix]

Somewhere amongst the heap of posts, this is also covered in the above mentioned LSI thread.

It says that it is encouraged, that you share your knowledge, the same as
it is on this forum, just use your brain a little when you do.

If you know how to open a phonebox and someone in the public area of this forum asked and you told them, you would not be using common sense.

If your buddy asks you to break into a house, you would also be stupid to
offer any helpful advice.

Anyway, Trak, I hope that helps.

[Varjeal]

....is not shared with any non-member who may abuse it.

(bold my emphasis)

I think that part of the statement is the key part. We rely on each other as members to use good judgement when sharing information, even on this site. To the best of our ability we do try not to share info with people we suspect may abuse it, and as a reflection of this site we reflect it in the COC.

[treboR]

As for rule #6. We use a very similar rule here at lp101. Members are expected to be careful with the type of information that is shared on the public forums. db

I have no problem with the way it is handled here. This site does not have a membership fee and I have not seen anyone banned for giving out to much info. The post may get deleted or locked, but no one has to worry that they are going to get kicked out of the club and forfiet their membership fee.

I think that this rule for LSI is too general. Who decides what type of info can and can not be shared, and who in can be shared with, and how did they get this authority? Will they make it clear in writing what is acceptible, or will they be able to change the rules to fit their own personal agenda?

I also do not think that this rule is enforceable. How does the ruler( ) of LSI know what I say and who I say it to?

I do not think it is reasonable to try to extend these rules into someones personal life. They can't be enforced and they are a bit of a turn off.

I would not feel comfortable if I had to ask permission to tell my Dad how to get into his car so that he doesn't have to spend $50 on a locksmith. I have been a grown up for a long time now, and I am not used to asking for permission about what I can talk about.

The way the rules are now, I could be kicked out of LSI for saying anything to anyone, because someone else doesn't like what I said. That is not something I am willing to pay for.

[digital_blue]

Robert, I think that's a bit overly dramatic. As has been said before (and I'm getting a little tired of saying it) these rules are not in place to push around good people with good motives. For crying out loud, we *want* to develop local clubs, not inhibit them. The strictness that is read in the rules is there for a reason. In my opinion a good and important reason. I would say that mot people understand this and, though they may not be 100% please with everything in the R.O.C., they have accepted that the rules in genereal are a good thing.

I'm getting pretty sick of going over this. The rules are what they are. Take it or don't. I'm sorry I have to come across like such a donkey but for crying out loud I've tried being diplomatic about it.

Cheers.

db

[Varjeal]

This site does not have membership fees, but people HAVE been banned for giving out inappropriate information. No one here has to worry that they are going to get kicked off the site because they know the rules and boundaries set, but more importantly, have a set of personal standards and ethics that add to the legitimacy and value of this site.

Unlike most think, rules are not in place for people who are moral, ethical and have respect and common sense, they are there for those who are amoral, unethical, disrespectful, and/or lack common sense (and to some extent we all are in those categories).

Regardless of what you personally believe about whether this or that rule is general, too specific, or enforceable, they are what they are. If it turns you off to follow the rules that have been outlined, then don't join, seriously. I'm getting a bit tired of hearing a select few complain about them.

If you would give your dad advice on how to get into his car so he doesn't have to get a locksmith, then really, don't join. Your missing the fact that this is meant for SPORT, not an occupation. You can also be soley and personally responsible when your dad wrecks something in the door or by your advice (or lack thereof) destroys the wiring to a potentially life-saving device to "save" $50.

I appreciate constructive criticism on our efforts in how to improve, but this petty nitpicking is only frustrating and unproductive. LSI is NOT meant to include EVERYONE. It is meant for people who take their hobby seriously, take a great deal of pride and enjoyment in what they do, and want to see the sport legitimized within both the public and security sectors. This wil not happen by throwing open the doors and saying "All who wish to pick locks for any reason can join us." We have gone through great lengths to put something together so that ANY member can hold membership proudly knowing that the leadership and every other member is dedicated to a set of TRUE standards.

I've said enough on the matter.

If anyone has anything constructive to add, I'd be interested in hearing/reading it. Otherwise, I'm personally considering this matter closed.

[Ezer]

You know what db? I'm sick and tired of your rules with your apply logic here and use the common sense God gave a 3 year old there. That's it! I'm starting my own club. It will be based on the time proven principles of the putt putt golf tribes of Venezuala. For all you others fed up like me you can read are very explicit yet utterly unthreatening list of rules at www.pantiesinabunch.net.

If anyone has anything constructive to add, I'd be interested in hearing/reading it. Otherwise, I'm personally considering this matter closed.

Oops, sorry Varj. You hadn't posted when I started my message.

[digital_blue]

Fed up with what??? We've created LSI for those who wish to join. Those who don't, don't have to. Ezer, if you're not interested in joining, than I don't see what you've got to be fed up with, and I don't see how any of this effects you at all.

db

[Ezer]

Yikes db. I'm just going to go to bed now. I realize now I never should have posted, but you really took my post seriously?

[treboR]

Robert, I think that's a bit overly dramatic.

Yea, maybe.

My point is just that there are already laws governing the use of this hobby and the tools for them. I do think that some of LSI's rules go far overboard. I already stated which ones I have a personal issue with.

As a salesman I like to know the reasons someone did not do business with me. I find that information very valuable, and welcome it. What I have been trying to do, is explain why I have NOT joined LSI.

You have commented that this is a dead horse. I can not understand how it is a dead horse unless you already have all the members you want.

Even though you do not think my concerns are valid, they are to me.