Talked to a Locksmith today...

[globallockytoo]

@budweiser:

Maybe this guy didnt appear to you to be a good locksmith. But as a business person....and one whose business has been around some time....he obviously knows the market he is supplying to. If Kwikset is the common product there and there is sufficient demand for it...then he would be fulfilling the demand...

Sure, he could try to upsell the client...but if they wont pay for more...then at least get the sale any way you can and continue to make money.

As for being an ignorant ignoramus....he is shooting himself in the foot by not continuing his education.

As for bumping.....Bumping has been around for many years and just about all locksmiths know the technique....it was never actually called bumping before TOOOL got ahold of it....it was commonly known as "rapping".... (BTW...rapping is also a way to shim cylinders without a piece of shim)

Most locksmiths would be reluctant to use the technique...as it is not considered a professional way to open locks....locksmiths are paid to pick the lock...so use picks.

Another thing....just because someone advertises themselves as the biggest and the best....might help to attract more clientelle...good on him...you obviously were attracted by the ad...you think others might be too?

And, lastly, if someone were to come into my shop off the street and start talking to me about bumping and them taking a locksmith course....i would initially be wary of them too...for too long locksmiths have been reknowned for not actively marketing themselves, but placing an ad in the book/paper and waiting for the phone to ring....the amount of work has been drying up everywhere, unless the proactive locksmith goes out and finds it....so to not want to talk to some stranger off the street....i can understand....wouldnt you?

[linty]

i know lots of locksmiths who don't know about bumping. my coworkers who i asked when i first started told me it was just a myth and i've never seen any locksmith magazine write about it. i sometimes get the impression that it's the magazine's fault because many locksmiths rely on them for staying up to date.

[globallockytoo]

i know lots of locksmiths who don't know about bumping. my coworkers who i asked when i first started told me it was just a myth and i've never seen any locksmith magazine write about it. i sometimes get the impression that it's the magazine's fault because many locksmiths rely on them for staying up to date.

Why would any locksmith want to openly admit to something like bumping....unless he/she wanted to upsell a product?

Of course they are not going to tell the general public the secrets of the trade....there is a reason....to avoid the type of panic that as you can see is already being created as a result of what Tobias and the TOOOL people have started.


Another scenario here (not directly related and it is politically motivated, but displays a similar principle)... In the recent middle east conflict...so conveniently played out on our television screens....did you notice that the Arab news reporting included scenes of blood and guts continually....CNN picked this up and continually reported about the (alleged) Israeli brutality....and the graphic pictures being shown were to support the theory and influence world opinion....

BUT....(here the kicker)....the Israeli policy was not to show blood and guts to anyone, even their own people, so as to not influence anyone and create mass panic.

The Israelis were not trying to stir up ill-feelings because of the atrocities...as were the Arabs...this is directly related because it is all about the power of perception...

The media frenzy surrounding bumping has developed a panic that was not necessary. What are they trying to prove by releasing this information....that they are informing people or that lock manufacturers have been ripping people off since the invention of the pin tumbler more than 5000 years ago in Egypt?

I'm sorry....but all this talk about bumping should be available information but should not be publicly blown out of proportion....to influence anyone or fuel the soap box of known industry troublemakers like Mr Tobias.

[Skips]

But if its possible to open a lock by bumping surely then the public should be informed about it so they are able to make an informed decision about it? Secrecy isnt necesarily security. Advertising exploits surely strengthens the industry as a whole? This being said as an outsider.

[Shrub]

All well said and good if you can click your fingers and change every bumpable lock out there over night but you cant, it leaves hundreds of thousands of people with insecure locks that may not be able to afford the prices anti bump locks command, also most people will leave somthing that works and not replace it,

[globallockytoo]

But if its possible to open a lock by bumping surely then the public should be informed about it so they are able to make an informed decision about it? Secrecy isnt necesarily security. Advertising exploits surely strengthens the industry as a whole? This being said as an outsider.

I never said that the information shouldnt be freely available....but to actively promote and advertise it....is like encouraging people to panic....

As a locksmith....I am glad that people will want to buy more high-security....like Bilock or Medeco or Abloy Protec....speaks for greater sales for me....and more money....

but I'm not wanting to panic the public....just protect them!

[Skips]

Doesnt that just mean that the people are making an informed decision? With the pressure caused by this would it also make the lock makers shift their stance on making standard locks towards un-bumpable ones?

[globallockytoo]

Doesnt that just mean that the people are making an informed decision? With the pressure caused by this would it also make the lock makers shift their stance on making standard locks towards un-bumpable ones?

I dont believe it will affect manufacturers that much unless the market....as determined by the architects...and building contractors vote with their wallets....and this is unlikely...as they want to make more money not have it cost them more.

[Skips]

So people havent blown it that much out of proportion? Or possibly havent paid enough attention to it as they should? If there really had been a huge outcry Im pretty sure they would be putting pressure on their contractors to do this.

[globallockytoo]

So people havent blown it that much out of proportion? Or possibly havent paid enough attention to it as they should? If there really had been a huge outcry Im pretty sure they would be putting pressure on their contractors to do this.

Luckily, so far, the amount of publicity it has been getting has only just started to scratch the surface of possibility....but when the news story is picked up by a national broadcaster....and it starts a much wider circulation....then the situation might change...

There are already multiple TV and media articles about this issue...but it is yet to be picked up by the BIG FOUR....when it does...well...things might change because of the controversy it could create

[Skips]

Fair enough and thankyou for taking the time to bring me up to date on the current play of things.

[Mememe]

On this side of the pond we have advertising standards (legal, decent, honest and truthful). The more hype there is about bumping the more concerned consumers get thus forcing lock manufacturers to look at their marketing to make sure that they aren't making any false claims about security.

While I agree with the need for openess about bumping issues, there has to be a balance. Causing undue fear in people because they no longer feel secure in their own homes and cannot afford to upgrade security is no good thing either. There are enough people already living in terror without adding to it.

[globallockytoo]

On this side of the pond we have advertising standards (legal, decent, honest and truthful). The more hype there is about bumping the more concerned consumers get thus forcing lock manufacturers to look at their marketing to make sure that they aren't making any false claims about security.

While I agree with the need for openess about bumping issues, there has to be a balance. Causing undue fear in people because they no longer feel secure in their own homes and cannot afford to upgrade security is no good thing either. There are enough people already living in terror without adding to it.

I presume that TOOOL and Tobias dont get much airplay there?
This would be considered promoting terrorism perhaps?

Maybe the US Govt might look at Tobias as potentially promoting terrorism....by actively advertising how easy it is to bypass conventional locking systems!

[Mememe]

Both TOOOL (Holland) and SSDeV (Germany) have a very nice setup. Not only have they grudging respect from the authorities but manufactures regularly send them new locks for testing before going to market.

It will be a long while before Ireland and UK in in that position

One neat membership bonus that SSDev have is that members are issued with serialised & laminated PhotoId. This helps when trying to explain to authorities why you are carrying picks.

There are some drawbacks though. At least in Germany (and I think in other continental countries as well) if you teach someone to pick locks and they subsequently use that knowledge to break the law then you are co-responsible even if you are not involved.

[Temple]

This is the latest update on talking to the local locksmith association. So far it's been very slow but I can understand these people don't know me from Adam and I show up asking to be a locksmith and be taught all their "secrets"

However I have made progress I received an invitation to the next locksmith meeting in September. It's a start at least I did get a positive response this time and it was from the president of the locksmith association.