Rotating pins in a tubular lock?

[vov35]

I like the design of the Van lock, and was thinking that pins as used in the sidebar GM lock would be an upgrade to the lock's security (these would resist a fixed ward rather than a moving sidebar I guess). Then again they may already use such a system, as my understanding of this lock's design is fairly poor.

Anyway...
Would it be possible to cut a notch through the center of a key pin (on the end) such that a ward could pass through it only if rotated to the correct direction?

This would allow for the advantages of having two dimensions per pin, and of relocking for a small rotation to be combined. The only difficulty I see is getting the pins to spin to a random position when the key is removed. Perhaps one could devise a way to apply tension to them with a spring, as this would help to relock them in both dimensions as well.

[datagram]

http://lockwiki.com/index.php/Medeco_Original
http://lockwiki.com/index.php/Medeco_Biaxial
http://lockwiki.com/index.php/Medeco_M3
http://lockwiki.com/index.php/Corbin_Emhart
http://lockwiki.com/index.php/Axial_rotation (this page is admittedly lacking)

: )

datagram

[JK_the_CJer]

Neat idea, I have to wonder if it would be harder to manipulate than the normal rotating pins (Medeco and Emhart). What really makes those pins a pain to build rotate-the-pin tools for is their orientation in the keyway. If you adapted this to a tubular lock, they'd be staring you in the face. When an attacker no longer has to work within the limitations of a keyway, I'd imagine that consistently rotating those pins would get a lot easier.

[JK_the_CJer]

Whatever happens, just don't leave the sidebar groove open

[Squelchtone]

Whatever happens, just don't leave the sidebar groove open

HACKER!



Squelchtone

[vov35]

http://lockwiki.com/index.php/Medeco_Original
http://lockwiki.com/index.php/Medeco_Biaxial
http://lockwiki.com/index.php/Medeco_M3
http://lockwiki.com/index.php/Corbin_Emhart
http://lockwiki.com/index.php/Axial_rotation (this page is admittedly lacking)

Note how they're not tubular. I'm familiar enough with their function though.

I was thinking adapting it to the van lock design though. http://www.vanlock.com/

While rotating the pins would be easier, you have to remember that the thing would still relock with each small rotation. Although I suppose it'd be possible to resist that with a impressioning tool, it should still be superior to existing tubular locks.

Also I have a better idea on how to do this... **needs to learn some 3d modeling program to explain**

[vov35]

Also, where can I read more on the design of existing high security locks? I don't want to come up with something that's already been done again. **ahem medeco cam lock**

I'm trying to design a better one, not pick one, I'm pretty bad at it.

[mh]

I can recommend this book http://www.amazon.com/High-Security-Mec ... 0750684372 by our member greyman,
or the presentations of Peter Field at http://lockcon.com

Note also that Peter Field, while he usually discusses not a single word about lock manipulation at locksport events, this year particularly mentioned that tubular locks present all their key interfaces in the front of the lock, whereas a keyway makes reaching them with tools more difficult...

Best
Michael

[Rickthepick]

a tubular locks with rotational pins would be impressive and a very tough pick!
Any designs on one yet? Tricky i reckon