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Help With Spool Pin

lock picking techniques, videos, lessons, skills and building them so you can pick locks in nanoseconds.

Moderators: Kaotik, Chucklz

Re: Help With Spool Pin

Postby 3-in-1 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:30 pm

The graphite used by locksmiths is super fine and not the same as found in hardware stores. It is sold by HPC and even many locksmiths over apply it. And the point about not mixing lubes is well taken. But I would be interested in whether just a good cleaning would have improved the situation. Metal dust from over picking is not the usual dirt/gum problem found in locks.
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Re: Help With Spool Pin

Postby GWiens2001 » Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:07 am

Recently bought that ultimate challenge practice lock. Great for practice and learning! I like your idea of using that gun lube on the picks. I'll have to give it a try. Won't do it with the lock though. Mainly because I want it to feel like a normal lock.

Have a couple dozen padlocks, several tubular locks, 9 deadbolts and handleset cylinders, a number of car locks, and a number of miscellaneous locks to practice with. But it sure is nice to be able to reconfigure the practice lock with ease.

I definatly recommend the Ultimate Challenge Practice Lock for beginners. Pay the extra (less than 10 bucks) for the Ultimate, as it has 6 pin stacks availible, rather than the standard practice lock, which has only 5 pin stacks.. Sure, for 7 and a half bucks, you can buy all the pins that are included in the Ultimate, but you can't add that sixth stack.
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
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Re: Help With Spool Pin

Postby luckey » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:52 am

I will have to view these challenge locks they sound interesting, especially if they come with different types of security pins.
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Re: Help With Spool Pin

Postby MrWizard » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:17 am

When I go to do a lockout I always clean the lock out with LPS brand Contact Cleaner it leaves no oily residue like many other brands of electrical contact cleaners do. I immediately start picking on it while it is still damp sometimes picks in seconds by doing this. Drys very quickly so have to be quick. The problem you had with spool pins was the spring pressure has to be strong enough when you slack off on the tension the plug easily wants to go backwards to straight up and down by itself to be able to raise the spool above the shear line. If the plug is binding at all it makes it hard to do this. But you have figured this out now. As others have said the type of graphite you use does make a difference. If you always clean the lock with a none oily residue contact cleaner and let it dry completely that use sparingly HPC black graphite the locks works very well for long time until someone comes along and ruins it with WD40 a water base lubricant the worst thing you could ever use in a lock cylinder. :)

Richard
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Re: Help With Spool Pin

Postby daniel22747 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:06 pm

I have a lock that has a very nasty litle spool pin in it that is not responsive to the counter rotation method.

However I can get past it using an over lifting method. I use a southord pagoda pick that is long and flat with some small wavy bumps on it. I start with no tension. I lift all pins up hard, hold them up, and then apply medium tension.

After that I let off on the tension just enough to let the over set bottom pins drop back down. From here I then pick any pins that reset themselves again. As long as the spool pins remained above the sheer line I am good to go and the lock opens up.
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Re: Help With Spool Pin

Postby MrWizard » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:02 am

Over setting the pins is the trick. That is how I have always done spool pins only difference is the pick I always use for any occasion is a hook. I turn it upside down to the flat side raise all the pins above the shear line flip the pick upright and slowly lesson the tension. I have all kinds of tension tools and extractors in my daily pick case but the only pick in there is a standard HPC hook pick since 1978 and it works on almost anything I have ever needed to open. I do have many other pick sets including the Falle set but the HPC hook is the go to time tested one that works fine for me. Works for SPP and if you want to rake it works fine for that too. Just pull it out very quickly simulates the inertia of a pick gun. If the lock doesn't fly open I hold that tension and then go back in and SPP the ones that didn't get set. In a lock I know has spool pins over setting the pins is a must do if you want to get it open fast. If you learn picking locks from the beginning using a simple HPC hook pick you will see over time it is really all that is needed in just about any situation. There are smaller keyways it becomes tight in then you may want to try something else.

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Re: Help With Spool Pin

Postby dll932 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:49 am

I HATE graphite and never use it. I have seen locks so full of it the pins wouldn't move. If I find one like that I clean it with brake & electric motor cleaner then lube with Rem Oil, Tri-Flow or WD40.

Graphite was first used when locks had large sliding parts with lotsa clearance (bit and barrel key locks). Newer locks have too little clearance for it.
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Re: Help With Spool Pin

Postby MrWizard » Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:34 pm

Graphite is only a problem when someone has used a wet lubricant in the cylinder and then graphite was used or over used the amount of graphite. Use super clean LSP contact cleaner to clean out the dirt and pocket lint that collects because of wet lube of any kind being used and use quality graphite to lightly graphite it works perfect. Done it everyday for over 3 decades never a problem. :mrgreen:
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Re: Help With Spool Pin

Postby ARF-GEF » Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:37 pm

Graphite is also better in dry sandy environments where WD-40 can accumulate dirt and become a sticky mass.
In wet environment oils are better because the offer added protection against rust.
I use graphite, but it's important to only add a small amount too much can F up precise locks.

As for cleaning without taking apart, I use a brake cleaner, although I've been warned that it's very aggressive. So never use it on locks with plastic parts.
I'm not sure it's the best, I think contact cleaner is probably better, I'm going to try it too.
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Re: Help With Spool Pin

Postby MrWizard » Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:12 pm

In a lock cylinder there is nothing that can rust the shell and plug is brass or die cast metal the pins and springs brass in most cases kwikset springs are stainless steel. Moisture and oil never mix so in any environment I always use HPC graphite. LPS contact cleaner is more expensive and can't get it at an auto parts store but lock supply distributors sell it. It has proven to be the best to use in the lock cyld it leaves no residue and doesn't have a lingering toxic smell to the customer. WD-40 is horrible lubricant for inside a lock cyld especially if it has dirt or other oil plus graphite in the mix in it already. Good for external use to prevent rust or corrosion or looses rusted nuts and bolts. It was never designed for an internal lubricant.

According to the company that makes WD-40: WD-40 literally stands for water displacement 40th attempt. That's the name straight out of the lab book used by the chemist who helped develop WD-40 back in 1953. Norm Larsen, was attempting to concoct a formula to prevent corrosion, a task which is done by displacing water. Norm's persistence paid off when he perfected the formula for WD-40 on his 40th try. WD-40 was first used to protect the outer skin of the Atlas Missile from rust and corrosion. Norm Larsen repackaged WD-40 into aerosol cans for consumer use and the product was sold to the general public in 1958. In 1969, the Rocket Chemical Company was renamed after its only product WD-40. :D
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Re: Help With Spool Pin

Postby dll932 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:53 am

MrWizard wrote:Graphite is only a problem when someone has used a wet lubricant in the cylinder and then graphite was used or over used the amount of graphite. Use super clean LSP contact cleaner to clean out the dirt and pocket lint that collects because of wet lube of any kind being used and use quality graphite to lightly graphite it works perfect. Done it everyday for over 3 decades never a problem. :mrgreen:

I have used WD40 for 3 decades with no problems, so there.:)
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Re: Help With Spool Pin

Postby MrWizard » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:13 am

If you used WD-40 it in lock cylds for 3 decades those locks are all gummed up with cat hair. :mrgreen:
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Re: Help With Spool Pin

Postby dll932 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:18 am

MrWizard wrote:If you used WD-40 it in lock cylds for 3 decades those locks are all gummed up with cat hair. :mrgreen:

If you have cats, EVERYTHING is gummed up with cat hair.;)
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Re: Help With Spool Pin

Postby ARF-GEF » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:09 am

In a lock cylinder there is nothing that can rust the shell and plug is brass or die cast metal the pins and springs brass in most cases kwikset springs are stainless steel.


Yes there is. I'm not sure what locks you've seen (I mean only US or more European locks, not tom entian all the others) but just because it's brass in most cases and kwickset pins are stainless doesn't mean the majority of locks (which are not kwickset) is stainless or brass. You must not generalise. For example most of the springs I've seen are not from brass or from stainless steel either. In fact I think brass is a particularly unsuitable material for good springs.
Drill protection is also not always stainless.
I think you might have to look a bit broader. For example at padlocks. Many are brass, many are chrome plated. But there is a minority, in which case the cylinder connects to a non rustproof part of the lock and we should also consider them.
For those reasons in a case of elevated danger of corrosion I opt for regular WD 40 and I yet to screw it up.
Anyway that's just my opinion, and I'm admittedly very far in experience from the most experienced people here.

I myself generally use a bit of graphite. I generally agree with your second point, although I would definitely not put it this strongly.
WD-40 is horrible lubricant for inside a lock cyld



According to the company ... Rocket Chemical Company was renamed after its only product WD-40.

Very interesting story, thanks mr wizard for sharing.
I always knew military reserches lead to cool civilian applications, but never knew WD-40 was one of them.
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Re: Help With Spool Pin

Postby MrWizard » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:02 am

Yes your right I should not generalize but only state my findings and they are as stated I am not a fan of WD-40. :?

I should have said not brass but brass coated springs that are rust resistant. I am referring to locks on commercial or residential buildings and cars in most cases I have never seen rust in the lock cyld. I have only seen rust on a padlock and still never inside the cyld. But I live in the desert in Phoenix Arizona USA where it don't rain all the time. It is very dusty in the desert and if you use a wet lube inside the lock cyld you are begging for a problem. :wink:

As for WD-40 it doesn't have the chemical makeup for use as an internal lubricant and doesn't last very long in that application here in the hot climate it drys up fast and leaves a gummy mess so I refuse to use it.

I thought many would find the back story on WD-40 interesting it's not very well know it took a rocket scientist 40 tries to make it work. :mrgreen:

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