CISA - lock that uses the double sided key

[Swampraker]

Hello everyone. I have just joined after reading the site for the last few months. I have bought a euro size pickset from Multipick (SouthOrd tools)
I have opened a few conventional cylinder locks but am unable to use the tools on the CISA (italian - now owned by Ingersoll) lock that uses the double sided key.
I have seen dimple keys but this looks like a normal pin cylinder with a very small opening. The notches in the key are side ways on.
The picks I have are much too big to manouver along the channel.
I don,t think I am alowed to paste photos so I hope I am clear.
Would matador picks be the answer?
Many thanks

[Chris B]

Swampraker

Here is a link which might be of interest...
http://www.cisa-indonesia.com/cylinder_keys.htm

and there's a pdf in...
http://www.cisa.com/flex/cm/pages/Serve ... agina/2041

regards from Chris B

[deciBell]

It look as if you describe an CISA ST or TSP
http://www.cisa.com/flex/cm/pages/Serve ... agina/2052
6 pins, EXTREME paracentric keyway and a few side-cuts.
Lucky enough, they don't always use the anti-pick dead locking pin
(a pin of max. length that goes through the keyway. (shown red on the pic)).
This system (and pat.) is also used in the ABUS XP1 which is picked (but only by a few) and bumped.
Yes, this keyway looks like a pickers nightmare

[Swampraker]

Hi deciBell and Chris B

Thanks for the reponse.

I should have thought of giving the URL.

http://www.cisa.com/flex/cm/pages/Serve ... agina/2049

The locks are one of these. Probably one of the first two as they only cost about 20 euro depending on where you buy them. Mind you to have a key cut costs 4 Euro.
I am sure I will have some fun and frustration trying but my problem was the picks will not fit into the key ways as they are (the picks) too deep.
I have spent the day trawling metal merchants toolshops and got some material and tools to try to make my own kit. I have found a brilliant place to buy old dentists tools at 3 Euro a pop. Much better steel than the picks I have bought.
Many thanks again for your reponse any help is much appreciated.
Will Matador picks help? I could make same dimples in some metal that also flexes (with different peaks) with varying pressure and then rake? (stupid idea?)

Cheers
Swampraker

[deciBell]

OK, other type of lock

Those tiny dimple locks can be picked with the so called Mul-T-Lock pickset.
This overpriced set (over US$100) contains 4 'normal' picks and one double-ended.

http://tinypic.com/2je990

The double-ended (#3) is just a combination of #2 and #3.
#1 and #5 are specialy for the outer- and inner- pins of a Mul-T-Lock, but
#2 and #4 (and of course the double one) can be used on any dimple lock.

My homemade versions are dremeled from a small hacksaw blade 'ECLIPSE'.
Dont forget to give your tips a small slope (as can be seen in #4) to get the tips easy under (or over) the pins.
Give your tools a round (or hex) grip for better grip and easy 'wiggle' through the lock. Simply glue them in an old ballpoint.

[Swampraker]

Hi DeciBell,
Many thanks for the info.
I will buy a set of the picks as I am not an expert toolmaker.
I wish I could visit the club in Amsterdam. maybe one day.
Cheers...