Lock Picking 101
Lockpicking, Locksmithing, Locksport, Locks and Picks
       

Lock Picking 101
Login
Profile
FAQ
Members
Search
Lock Pick 
Shop


Information
FAQ & General Information
Locksmith Business
Pick-Fu - Do... Not try.
Got Questions?
General Chatter


Hardware
Automatic/Mechanical
Lockpicks - Manual
Locks
Eu Locks, Picks & Hardware
Buy - Sell - Trade

Advanced Locks
Advanced Locks Information
Combo, Electronic & Safes
Automotive Locks and Picks
High Security Locks
Advanced Lock Pick Tools


Locksport Groups
Locksport Local
Chapter President's Office
Locksport Board Room

Featured Picks
Locksmiths
Locksmiths Forum
 

Kwickset SmartKey: How to Pick

lock picking techniques, videos, lessons, skills and building them so you can pick locks in nanoseconds.

Moderators: Kaotik, Chucklz

Postby Jaakko » Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:31 pm

Lauren, could you paste your findings/research here instead of PM, as it is serving others too and asking to be PM'd on other than the B/S/T-section of the forum is not so nice thing to do (actually it probably is in the rules).

Unless you can't put them here, a PM is welcome :)
Image
Jaakko
 
Posts: 1986
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:23 pm
Location: Finland (Pirkkala)

Postby jimb » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:30 pm

Jaakko wrote:Lauren, could you paste your findings/research here instead of PM,


I would also like to see this info. I'm assuming that he means he can probe the lock with it locked and on the door.

If you have access to take the lock off the door then the wafers can be sight read and a key cut, or you can re-key it (without the cradle).
jimb
Supporter
Supporter
 
Posts: 775
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:48 am

Postby Brianpojo56 » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:59 pm

Once you get the technique for the tension down, picking a smartkey is not very time consuming. And besides, there are two very quick bypass techniques (one for the deadbolt and one for the knob) that worked on the original kwikset and still works on the new smartkey as the only mechanical part that was changed was the cylinder itself. However, I don't believe I can talk about those here (besides most of you guys probably already know what I'm talking about). Then, as was stated above, once the lock is off the door it can extremely easily be decoded just by looking at it, or reset and rekeyed without the use of the kwikset ripoff cradle.

I would like to say this about the Smartkey. The idea behind it, and how it functions and how they've made it so easily rekeyable is pretty nifty. However, when it comes down to it, when all is said and done, it is still just a kwikset, and a criminal would still smash it off the door in the middle of the night or break a window just like he would to the older kwiksets.
There's nothing what can't be done with a lil Trailer Park Ingenuity.
Brianpojo56
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:19 am
Location: Florida

Postby Eyes_Only » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:35 pm

I tell that to my customers but most of them go into denial after being made to believe by the sales people at Home Depot that this new lock is the best of the best and that no one can break it.
If a lock is a puzzle, then its key is the complete picture
Eyes_Only
Supporter
Supporter
 
Posts: 4113
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:33 am

Postby Schuyler » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:43 pm

So - what is the underlying distaste for Kwikset?

Would you agree that they are offering a better product at a comparable price point to what they were selling 2 years ago? / Can that be said of Schlage or Defiant?
Schuyler
Supporter
Supporter
 
Posts: 3491
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: Boston

Postby doppleganger » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:26 pm

Yeah I'm not seeing what would be different between a $200 lock and a $40 lock on a residential door. They both can be kicked in (DE). The weakness is not in the locks so much, it's in the door frame. If door frames were made of steel and the deadbolts were 3+" into the frame then I could see there being more of a difference between kwikset and Alboy or higher end locks.

I am all for causing a person to waste more time to break into a residence, but if that person is going to kick the door in anyway, then it doesn't matter what you have on the door. The frame places a larger role in the ability for entry.

So if Kwikset is causing more time to be wasted for the bad guys then that's all good. If they are selling a better lock at the same price as previous models then what is wrong with that?

If I'm missing something or way off in my assumptions please let me know.

D
doppleganger
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:59 pm

Postby freakparade3 » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:35 pm

A responsible locksmith will do everything he or she can to make sure the door is secure. High security locks come with steel strike boxes to install with 3.5 inch screws. Also the addition of a door wrap helps make the door stronger. If someone wants me to install a high security lock and does not want to spend money on anything else I tell them just the lock is a waste of money.
Image
freakparade3
Moderator
 
Posts: 3465
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:01 am
Location: Tiffin, Iowa

Postby globallockytoo » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:54 pm

Brianpojo56 wrote:... The idea behind it, and how it functions and how they've made it so easily rekeyable is pretty nifty. However, when it comes down to it, when all is said and done, it is still just a kwikset, and a criminal would still smash it off the door in the middle of the night or break a window just like he would to the older kwiksets.


The quality is not brilliant but the cost effective solution to bumping is shown to have been achieved. This is the ultimate goal of the product.

Kudos to Kwikset for releasing a simple and cost effective solution, so quickly.

The only problem as I see it, is in the compatibility to other similar keyway products and the desires of many customers to have multiple differing hardware with the ability to be keyed alike or for that matter master keyed.

This product is a locksmith service market killer. It negates the need for a locksmith, in my opinion.
One One was a race horse, one one won one race, one two was a racehorse, one two won one too.

Disclaimer: Do not pull tag off mattress. Not responsible for legal advice while laughing.
Bilock - The Original True Bump Proof Pin Tumbler System!
globallockytoo
 
Posts: 2157
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:33 am

Postby doppleganger » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:34 pm

[quote=This product is a locksmith service market killer. It negates the need for a locksmith, in my opinion.[/quote]

I really don't see this happening. As with all newer technology and innovations when one market area closes there usually is an opening in another. How many times have I ever called a locksmith? ZERO. The reason is that I have never needed one, and it wasn't because I am a do-it-yourselfer. But there will always be problems with equipment and as it was posted prior in this thread, this lock has increased one guys business due to breakage of the locks. Although I think it appears this might be due to the lower temperatures, since he is in Canada.

Time will tell, all anyone can do right now is speculate as to what will happen with this new lock. Again, good for kwikset in elevating their standards and not trying to kill the customer on pricing!!!!

D
doppleganger
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:59 pm

Postby Jaakko » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:26 am

globallockytoo wrote:This product is a locksmith service market killer. It negates the need for a locksmith, in my opinion.

Yes, and home taping is killing the industry.

Really, locksmith services are still needed in case of lockout, operation failure, better locks, some master keying job or something the like.
Image
Jaakko
 
Posts: 1986
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:23 pm
Location: Finland (Pirkkala)

Postby datagram » Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:20 am

Took some pictures of my Smartkey. Surprisingly easy to disassemble/reassemble (I expected crap to fly everywhere, but was all fairly self contained). Helpful in seeing how the mechanism inside works.

Lock face, smaller hole is for Smartkey:
Image

Cylinder removed from body. Sidebar can be seen in the middle, wafer slots on top:
Image

Cylinder with correct key inserted, sidebar wafers aligned:
Image

Core removed from cylinder. Sidebar and anti-drill bearings visible. You can also see the spring and black plastic piece used for Smartkey rekeying:
Image

Closeups of sidebar. Second picture shows indvidual wafer notches:
Image
Image

Sidebar body removed, wafer positions shown (sorry about blur):
Image

Closeup of wafers:
[img]http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp42/dglocks/kwikset_smartkey/75ee877c.png{/img]

Pins with key/no key inserted:
Image
Image

Closeup of pin:
Image

Lock opened with correct key, core exposed:
Image

Lock opened, smartkey used to push sidebar back (key can be removed and replaced, the black plastic piece will lock the sidebar back until new key is inserted and rotated back into normal position):
Image

dg
datagram
 
Posts: 850
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:49 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Kwickset SmartKey: How to Pick

Postby dog boy » Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:51 pm

I don't even carry kwikset locks in my shop. I don't like the quality at all and I found that I was dealing with a lot of customer dissatisfaction with them. I assumed the only reason they are making the new smart key locks is to make it easier for the customer to rekey their locks themselves.
I'm a walking talking key to the city
dog boy
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:51 pm

Re: Kwickset SmartKey: How to Pick

Postby globallockytoo » Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:00 am

dog boy wrote:I don't even carry kwikset locks in my shop. I don't like the quality at all and I found that I was dealing with a lot of customer dissatisfaction with them. I assumed the only reason they are making the new smart key locks is to make it easier for the customer to rekey their locks themselves.


and realistically speaking....how often will the customer have another set of keys (different) to use to rekey their own locks?
they will still call locksmiths anyhow. So now the locksmith makes more money quicker without removing cylinders from doors!
Thanks Kwikset.

How often will the customer remember where the required change tool is?
One One was a race horse, one one won one race, one two was a racehorse, one two won one too.

Disclaimer: Do not pull tag off mattress. Not responsible for legal advice while laughing.
Bilock - The Original True Bump Proof Pin Tumbler System!
globallockytoo
 
Posts: 2157
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:33 am

Re: Kwickset SmartKey: How to Pick

Postby globallockytoo » Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:03 am

this changes my opinion from my last comment...after looking at jaako's response differently.

while it might prove a great counter to bumping/picking....it will also become a new source of opportunity for some locksmiths
One One was a race horse, one one won one race, one two was a racehorse, one two won one too.

Disclaimer: Do not pull tag off mattress. Not responsible for legal advice while laughing.
Bilock - The Original True Bump Proof Pin Tumbler System!
globallockytoo
 
Posts: 2157
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:33 am

Re: Kwickset SmartKey: How to Pick

Postby What » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:47 am

globallockytoo wrote:and realistically speaking....how often will the customer have another set of keys (different) to use to rekey their own locks?
they will still call locksmiths anyhow. So now the locksmith makes more money quicker without removing cylinders from doors!
Thanks Kwikset.

How often will the customer remember where the required change tool is?

Home improvement stores are now selling kits of keys and a change tool...
What
 
Posts: 958
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:17 pm
Location: universe, solar system, earth, n. america, USA, california, orange county

PreviousNext

Return to Pick-Fu - Do... Not try.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests