Questions about abloy boda lever lock.

[zeke79]

I have a few questions for you UK and Euro guys about a lever lock I aquired that is made by boda which is a part of abloy. This is an 8 lever lock with a double bitted key and 100,000 possible differs from the info I can find. The lock model is a number 429.

I hope I use the correct terms here, but the question I have is that the bolt stump is located in the middle of the lever pack which seems to me would make using a typical 2 in 1 pick impossible. Am I correct?

Here are some picks of the lock and key. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[Dimmy Locks]

That pic answers a few questions on another thread concerning double bitted key that may be mirrored so nice to see the inside of this lock.

looking at the gate I'm guessing the bitting side lifts half the levers and allows the bolt to draw back to the middle gate. the 2nd bitting side lifts the rest of the levers to allow for total bolt withdrawal? would be nice if you can confirm this.

I personally dont see why a 2 in 1 pick wouldnt pick this. 1 pick is for the bolt the other for the levers.

Check out Pinky's "sticky" on 2 in 1 pick usage. This lock will present a few unusual difficulties, but nothing a little practice wouldnt overcome. Perhaps make a plastic cover for it and practice with that for a while so u can see as well as feel what the picks are doing.
i think I see, not only really thick levers with anti pick notches to counter act both under and over lift but also mutiple tangs on the bolt itself, so worth checking best place on bolt to use the pick on that.

Hope that helps a little, and I'm sure others more experienced than me will correct anything here.

could you also take pics of the key acting on the levers as well as a pic with the bolt fully extended. would give a clearer understanding.

[illusion]

wow... second time today that question was asked...

This site deals with your lock.
http://www.chez.com/montmartre/double.html

as far as picking it goes I think a 2 in 1 pick would work actualy, but I can't be sure

[illusion]

this lock doesn't look impossible to pick, and since there is no curtain you could use wire picks on this, or a 2 in 1 pick if you've got one.

[zeke79]

I guess having never looked at a 2 in 1 pick in person I must be confused to how they are made. I just am not seeing how you can keep tension on the bolt and manipulate the levers that are on the opposite side that you are applying tension with the pick.

[Dimmy Locks]

After studying both the key and the lever gates again, I've realised something.
! side of the key has offset bittings, and the lever gates are of differing heights. This leads me to believe that this isnt simply a 4+4 arrangement, its an 8+8 arrangement.
I now believe all 8 levers will need to be picked and the bolt moved to the middle gating. All 8 levers will then need to be repicked, but this time, they will all be at different heights. Each lever in effect is acting like 2 seperate levers.
Would love someone else to take a good close look at the offset on the key bitting and the gating to confirm this.
If that is the case, I still believe a 2 in 1 pick will pick this but its not going to be a 10 minute job.

I want one of these locks!!! lol.

[zeke79]

you are right, I thought we were all on the same page about that. Sorry for the confusion.

[illusion]

I reckon you're right Dimmy, the levers look like they need to be picked twice.
looking carefully at the levers themselves I think I can see anti-pick notches.. that will make it hard, especialy if all the levers have them. I wonder if the fact that the two bitings are in fact of the same heights, only inverted in placement hints as to how this lock functions...

I would like to see this myself as well

[Dimmy Locks]

I just am not seeing how you can keep tension on the bolt and manipulate the levers that are on the opposite side that you are applying tension with the pick.

I think this is a monster job for someone as their 1st lever lock project.!!

when picking lever locks , you only pick 1 lever at a time, pretty much along lines as if picking pin locks. u are feeling for the lever that is catching on the bolt as u apply gently pressure with the bolt pick.
I strongly sugguest u read up on lever picking. this lock is also designed to give false impression that u have "gated" the lever with the anti pick notches, complicated further in that many if not all of these levers appear to have both over lift and under lift anti pick notches. If you can, try to load the lock with just 1 or to levers and the bolt. then using 1 hand lift the lever so the bolt can pass through the gate in the lever. play with it a bit, Gently hold the bolt up against the lever and then lift the lever up and down u will feel it give as it reaches the gate. thats what you are looking for when picking. also, intentionally lift the lever above the gate postion and u will feel the bolt give a fals impression that it will slide back, but then it will get hooked in the anti pick. ( the notched bit on bolt stump will be caught in a false cut out on lever). Replace the levers and fit a plastic cover plate. and try with the picks, Apply gentle pressure on the bolt so the stump makes contact with a lever, try to locate that lever and lift it to the gate postion and if all is well it will hook itself onto the edge of the stump, then try to find the next lever that is binding and repeat. Eventually all the levers will be restng (hopefully) on the bolt and u will be able to retract it to the 1st postion. then repeat all again to fully retract. Good luck Zeke, this is a hell of a 1st lever lock to attempt.

[illusion]

just be thankfull that there is no curtain on that lock, or you would have a reeeaaally hard job ahead of you. As it stands a regular non British Standard (nonBS) lock would be the best introduction, and would allow you to get a feel for it. Once you have mastered that British Standard locks with a curtain will give you an even bigger challenge, and will require different tools which could be expensive. That is of course if you want to work slowly up to it. If you want to tackle it head-on then follow Dimmy's advice, and put a clear-plastic cover on so you can get a better view.
Some ideas perhaps,

[zeke79]

Ok, after studying a picture of a 2 in 1 pick in more detail I can now see that the pick of the 2 in 1 can pass over the tensioner. Is this correct? I had at first thought these were designed similar to the abus granit picks in that the picking device could not pass your tensioner in depth. Hope that makes sense as to why I was confused. As to my experience with lever locks, it is limited for sure. This lock had me stumped though with my limited knowledge of a 2 in 1 pick.

[Dimmy Locks]

not exactly zeke.

The 2 in 1 is basically a tube with a bend in the end and a slot cut out of it. another l shaped wirerod can move freely up and down the length as well as move rotationally. Your lock would ceretainly be easier to pick with 2 seperate wires, 1 acting as tensioner and 1 as pick. To use a 2in1 you would need to keep swapping which rod is the tensioner. The outer rod would be tensioner on the bolt and the inner rod would lift all the levers that sit keyway side . then move the inner rod to meet the outer rod and carefully swap their uses. the inner rod becomes tensioner and the outer rod becomes pick for all the levers the other side of the bolt from key way.
I can see benifits and draw backs for both seperate wires and a 2in1 tool on this lock. Better control and feedback with the 2in1 then u can get with seperate wires (which can get tangled up as they tend to flap around a bit), but with the 2in1, constantly having to swap which is going to be the tensioner, especially as theres no guarantee that all the levers on 1 side of bolt will pick 1st... in fact i'm sure you'll have to be swapping sides of the bolt constantly to find the next pickable lever.

[illusion]

I think you would have to custom make a 2-in-1 pick for this lock, as all of the ones I have seen are geared towards locks with single bitted keys.
although I think making a 2-in-1 pick for this lock is possible, I'm not entirely sure how...

[zeke79]

not exactly zeke.

The 2 in 1 is basically a tube with a bend in the end and a slot cut out of it. another l shaped wirerod can move freely up and down the length as well as move rotationally. Your lock would ceretainly be easier to pick with 2 seperate wires, 1 acting as tensioner and 1 as pick. To use a 2in1 you would need to keep swapping which rod is the tensioner. The outer rod would be tensioner on the bolt and the inner rod would lift all the levers that sit keyway side . then move the inner rod to meet the outer rod and carefully swap their uses. the inner rod becomes tensioner and the outer rod becomes pick for all the levers the other side of the bolt from key way.
I can see benifits and draw backs for both seperate wires and a 2in1 tool on this lock. Better control and feedback with the 2in1 then u can get with seperate wires (which can get tangled up as they tend to flap around a bit), but with the 2in1, constantly having to swap which is going to be the tensioner, especially as theres no guarantee that all the levers on 1 side of bolt will pick 1st... in fact i'm <censored> sure you'll have to be swapping sides of the bolt constantly to find the next pickable lever.

Thank you, that clears up everything. The pick and tensioner have to be swapped back and forth. Makes perfect sense!!

I am off to make a set of wires in the near future !

[Dimmy Locks]

Slightly off topic, and of totally no interest to Zeke, but, I believe i've recognised the cypher to the keycode......Autosmiths will understand what I mean if I said Abloy/Chub 6 code. as used on some earlier Fords and current LDV vehicles with a C coding.