Need help with a Masterlock No.575

[Infosec]

I've gotten pretty decent at picking locks, I bought a Brinks deadbolt and can open it pretty easily, Masterlock No.3 is a breeze but I've been at this No.575 for two days now and haven't made any progress.

The problem I'm having is if I try and start from the back I can get the first 3 pins set but the first two won't set at all. If I start from the front when I try to set the first two pins (can only get it using a ton of tension) the minute I get them set and move on to the 3rd pin the both fall down. I'm having trouble understanding why they fall down. I have them both set, I'm not letting up on the wrench at all but it never fails every time they fall down.

Any tips?

http://www.masterlock.com/cgi-bin/prod_ ... =20&Go.y=2

[wtf|pickproof?]

There is no reason to pick locks back to front or even the other way round. The order in which the pins have to be picked is soly determined by the tolerances of the lock. Reading over the MIT guide again won't hurt.

[Mad Mick]

I haven't played with this lock yet, so I don't know for certain, but it could contain spools. Can anyone else elaborate on this lock?

If the tension wrench pushes back as a pin is lifted, you can be pretty sure you have a spool (or other security pin).

Previously set pins resetting, is an indication of either:
a) incorrect picking order (find the most-bound pin and set that first...test and re-find the next most-bound pin...and so on)
b) the presence of security pins (spool, mushroom, serrated, sleeved-spool)

HTH.

[luckyPick]

Ah MasterLock how art` thow to be loved!!

Really I did not find this a hard padlock.

We recentley got a shipment of these in at the hardware store I work at. They looked interesting so I thought, what the hey- I'll pick one up. So I did. Came on here quick looked for information only to see no real help. So I took it into the bathroom and picked it while on the John.

I don't think we are up against security pins here. I picked it in under 2 min twice while on the John.

First off use light tention. I think your over tentioning it.

My choice of picks where small hook, snake rake, and an S rake. All Southord picks.

First thing I did was got in there with the small hook and started lifting from the first pin back. After pulling the out the hook it seemed as if the last 2 or 3 pins could not be lifted. So I had to lighten up the tention and listen to a pin drop. Then I got in there with the snake rake and started lifting and raking from the back a few times then when I was confident that I wasn't putting too much tention on I get in there and started raking with the S rake. BOOM! Poped it like a wet.....

One thing I find really usefull to picking pin tumbler locks is while raking is to basicaly vary your tention. I like to apply a bit a tention and rake and if I dont feel pins setting I release it a little bit so you can hear a pin drop then start raking and then re-apply tention again. I just keep doing that. It really depends on the lock, you just have to use your Pick-Fu and a little Zen.

Hope that helps!

-Brad

[helix]

It sounds like you should try the third one, then the
back two then the front two, from what you have said.

Like someone said, there is no reason why you pick in any order.

The only order that is semi-useful, is from back to front, but this
is more a habit from picking older or very used locks
because of the wear and tear that the key does.
(more wear at the front because the key runs its
full length along the front pin and only a little on the back pin.)

So, yeah, there is no specific order for any particular lock.

How I came to the conclusion of picking the third then last two then first two is this:

You can set the front two with heavy tension, relative (I'm assuming) to the tension that it takes to set the back three.
This tells me that they are the least binding.

You want to pick first, the most binding pin.

You can set the back three, which means that it is one of those three.

If the third pin is making the first two fall, it doesn't come immediately before the ones that it makes fall.

Therefore, the back two are before the front two and the third is before the back two, giving you this order:

Third, back two, front two.

'Back two' does not imply an order, nor does front two.


So try this:
3,5,4,2,1- 3,4,5,2,1- 3,5,4,1,2- 3,5,4,2,1.

As a rule, pick the most binding pin first.
If it makes them fall down, it was the wrong order or the
wrong tension.

[Hardliner]

I have a Master Lock #576 which judging from the pics on their site is rather similar to the #575. A Peterson half-diamond is what I use and I can pick it 7/10 times in under a minute these days.

One thing that is wierd is that I experience the three back pins setting and the front two either not setting or not doing so securely. (i.e they pop back out). That said, I've noticed that the back three or four pins seem to be the only ones that actually have anything to do with opening this lock, since I have picked it a bunch of times without even touching the outermost pins (unless the bitting is such that I need only brush them lightly while inserting the pick and they set.) This is true for my other cheaper Masters as well -- I only feel a couple of pins click home and the lock pops open.

Also, I find I sometimes need to pick the pins of the 576 twice, which leads me to think spools or shrooms. They seem to set, and the plug turns a quite a bit but it isn't until I back off the tension a bit and manipulate each of them a little more that the lock opens.


PM

[thequantaleaper]

I also just got a 576... and I think Security pins are possibly playing games here... even when using the key, if you apply torque while inserting the key it won't let you turn it until you remove the torque first. I may be wrong here, but that's what I surmised.


P.S. It looks like the cylinder can be removed.. does anyone know if it can and how?

[thequantaleaper]

I also wanted to point out that I have the key to this lock (Master No.576) and it has seriously varying depths for each pin... and raking provides no help here.

I was wondering if anyone had any specific tips as to how I can pick these pins. I think it has security pins and I find it very difficult to even get the short hook in. I have also had no luck with the half-diamond or snake. I know a lot of problem is coming from my lack of experience.... so I humbly ask for help on this one.

p.s. on the key its like the back 2 pins are similar in depth and higher up.. the middle drops considerbly... and the front to are close to the back two. see illustration:

front of key ( = -- _ = -- ||||||||) back of key

[fjardeson]

From long experience at work with Master Padlocks, all the ones that have removable cylinders have a hex-key screw in the open hole made when the padlock is open. Simple Allen key removes the screw. Security nut falls out the bottom of the lock. Retainer then can be removed along with the cylinder. (Only exception I know is the round haspless types which I don't have).

And yes I've found spools in Master locks. As to when they started doing it, and on which locks, that is a mystery

[Bud Wiser]

I just got around to both the 575 and 576, they are not alike at all, The 576 is very easy, no security pins. Easy to SPP. Pops open in the first rake with the right tension. The 575 does have a spool I think as it will lock up, takes a little work to SPP but nothing too hard. BTW the 575 can be easily raked with a snake or a sine wave shaped rake like the dino navagator includes. The 575 is actually a better lock then the 576, on the line of the #140, but no where near the 532.

[zippo]

Ah MasterLock how art` thow to be loved!!

Really I did not find this a hard padlock.

We recentley got a shipment of these in at the hardware store I work at. They looked interesting so I thought, what the hey- I'll pick one up. So I did. Came on here quick looked for information only to see no real help. So I took it into the bathroom and picked it while on the John.

I don't think we are up against security pins here. I picked it in under 2 min twice while on the John.

First off use light tention. I think your over tentioning it.

My choice of picks where small hook, snake rake, and an S rake. All Southord picks.

First thing I did was got in there with the small hook and started lifting from the first pin back. After pulling the out the hook it seemed as if the last 2 or 3 pins could not be lifted. So I had to lighten up the tention and listen to a pin drop. Then I got in there with the snake rake and started lifting and raking from the back a few times then when I was confident that I wasn't putting too much tention on I get in there and started raking with the S rake. BOOM! Poped it like a wet.....

One thing I find really usefull to picking pin tumbler locks is while raking is to basicaly vary your tention. I like to apply a bit a tention and rake and if I dont feel pins setting I release it a little bit so you can hear a pin drop then start raking and then re-apply tention again. I just keep doing that. It really depends on the lock, you just have to use your Pick-Fu and a little Zen.

Hope that helps!

-Brad

Thanks for the description, I was working on this lock for a day and as soon as I read your post I got it in 20 seconds.

[mylofox]

Here's what I've learned about masterlock padlocks. They almost always have serated pins. Top and bottoms can be like this. I have found that picking these locks upside down holding the tension wrench with your pinky finger of the left hand and picking down. It feels like holding the tension this way turns the plug better than leaning the bottom. If that makes sense.

[Squelchtone]

Here's what I've learned about masterlock padlocks. They almost always have serated pins. Top and bottoms can be like this.

What? No way man, not unless you meant to write American Lock padlocks. I have never seen a serrated pin inside a Master Lock padlock. A spool pin yes, but never a mushroom or serrated pin.

No Master Lock bottom pins are ever anything other than regular. I do wish Master got off their butts and put some security pins in their padlocks, usually its 1 or 2 spool pins in the Pro Series but never in the No.3, No.5.. Usually the No.140 and the 532, 575, 576 padlocks have at least 1 driver that is a spool pin.

The irony is that Master bought out American Lock a few years ago. You'd think they would steal all the American Lock designs and tricky serrated pins and made their entire line use the same nice parts that we all came to expect from American Lock padlocks.

Happy New Year!
Squelchtone

[mylofox]

Any master lock or American rekeyable padlock should have serrated pins they come in the pinkits. It's what makes them more difficult to shim and easy to impression.

[Squelchtone]

Any master lock or American rekeyable padlock should have serrated pins they come in the pinkits. It's what makes them more difficult to shim and easy to impression.

I'm still doubtful. Are you by chance calling spool pins "serrated pins" ? I had my Medeco locksmith tell me dead straight that spool and mushroom pins are the exact same thing. Until I showed him a handful of them and he said.. ohhhh..

So if I go to Target right now and buy a Master No.3 for $5 US right now and cut it open I'm gonna find serrated pins? I have never seen this since I started in locks as a hobby in 2005. Sure they may come in some pin kit you've seen, but I honestly don't believe they are a factory item that is put in the locks. American Lock sure, they're always serrated. Master Lock, not that I've ever seen.

Any (other) locksmiths care to chime in?

Thanks, we'll get to the bottom of this.

Squelchtone