An idea I'd like to press on tension tools?

[WDPaladin]

I'm going to start with a quote from Raimundo that I noticed in another post that I found very interesting, and may warrant investigation. (I DID edit it down, but only with getting to the point of interest in mind, and not to change the meaning of what was said or to put words into his mouth. Anyways, here it is-

...your tensor blade applies the tension at the front of the locks, and the binding force will be stronger there ... with a greater wiggle the further back you get from the front of the lock...

I think this might be a pretty interesting little tidbit; I absolutely agree, but never thought about it like that. My question is this: Anyone think/know if perhaps a longer tension tool that would extend the length of the plug would work better than the regular old ones? If the tool were able to put even pressure down the length of the plug, wouldn't it make things a bit easier knowing that there would be less "play" towards the deep end?

Again, thanks to Rai for sparking this thought!

[Engineer]

I'm not sure how this could be done though? The tension tool is very thin and flexible. Even if the wrench was down the full length of the keyway, you might have problems with access then for your pick, but twisting the wrench would still be applying torque only to the front of the cylinder. The rest of the wrench would twist slightly, applying little torque I suspect?

You could harden the wrench and if you bent it just slighly before you hardened it, in the opposite direction to what you would be twisting it in the cylinder, then it would be straightened out as you applied torque and if you got it *just* right, you could apply torque evenly throughout the cylinder.

It might be very difficult to do, but if it could be done, then it might actually be a good improvement in the feedback while picking and I bet it would be great to use.

[femurat]

This idea is not bad, but needs to be tested.
Let's see if we could do it in an easy way. If I use a long wrench I could deform its tip so the force is mainly applied to the front of the keyway, as Engineer suggested. What if the tip of the wrench is larger than the beginning? Or, even better, the wrench tip could be shaped like an half diamond so you can insert it halfway and turn the plug directly from its middle.
I think this could be enough to transmit more force to the back of the plug without having to build a bent wrench.

Any suggestion/objection before I try it?
Cheers

[Engineer]

A Half-diamond WRENCH? Now there's a thought!

You know, there is something that appeals to me about the idea of shaped wrenches. I don't know if it would work well, or just partially obstruct the keyway, but it sure sounds like something fun to try.

I will grind the odd bristle myself when I get a chance to try this out. I know some prefer the tension wrench at the top of the keyway, rarther than the bottom so they have more room for the pick to manoeuvre. This might have a different feel again, turning the plug from the middle, like some disc detainer locks do.

Good idea to try, you have got me intrigued with this idea!

[femurat]

Here it is! The diamond tip is a little wider than usual to increase the grip in the keyway.



I tried it yesterday evening for a few minutes in a standard europrofile, a dimple europrofile and in a master5.
In the standard keyway it worked very well. I can't say if it's better than a regular wrench cause this lock was so easy... but it works.
With the dimple lock I had less luck. I have to admit that this lock is my actual limit: I can pick it but it's a real challenge. So maybe it's my (and not the wrench) fault. I'll try again.
I couldn't open the master5 cause the wrench started twisting and I didn't want to deform it. The problem is the thickness of the bristle I used for this experiment. I think that using a less thin rod could work within spring loaded plugs.

Hope this little experiment I made could help WDPaladin and all others interested in developing this idea.

Engineer, if you try this too, let us know how it works...

Cheers

[Engineer]

Femurat, you beat me to it. I've not had chance yet.

You have confirmed something though, the thin part of the shaft is going to twist under use. Sweeper bristles have plenty of "spring" in them, so I think they contain enough carbon to harden quite nicely?

I'm going to heat the thin bit of mine up to a nice cherry read and immediatly quench it in cold water to make it very hard and not springy at all. you should never make picks that hard as there is a great risk of them breaking in your lock, however I think I might be able to get away with it for a wrench.

Incidentally, if anyone does try hardening vrisltes like this, you will find the thin pats contain so little metal, that they wil loose their heat and cool down VERY quickly, so the quenching water will have to be right at the side of the wrench when you heat it, so you can dunk it very quickly.

Incidentally, that's very good work femurat, it's a nicely done wrench

[WDPaladin]

Wow, I'm glad that you guys are taking the idea up! I've yet to find the resources to actually attempt this myself, but I'm very impressed by what's going on so far. Keep the the info, and I'll see if I can't get something started up myself.

Paladin

[Engineer]

Yep, this is your idea and it is taking off!

It really was a very good and interesting idea, hopefully someone will get something that works well...

[femurat]

Thanks Engineer, you are too good with me

I think you're right about hardening the tang. I'm not a big expert of heat treatments, so it's better I leave the metal as it is. I'm sure you'll get great results with your attempt.

To improve the wrench stability the tip could be less thin than mine. I think that a small variation in the tip width could be enough to turn the cylinder from its middle without having a springy wrench.

Cheers

[Moosekace]

What effect do you guys think you would get if you rotated the shaped tip of the tension wrench so that its profile was on the same plane as the profile of the keyway? In other words, if femurat turned just the tip 90 degrees away from us as it is seen in his picture.

[femurat]

What effect do you guys think you would get if you rotated the shaped tip of the tension wrench so that its profile was on the same plane as the profile of the keyway? In other words, if femurat turned just the tip 90 degrees away from us as it is seen in his picture.

I'd say the wrench could no longer enter the keyway.

I use this wrench as a normal one, so its profile IS on the same plane of the keyway. Maybe I didn't understand your example... any chance to see it on a drawing or a picture?

Cheers

[5thcorps]

Nice to see new ideas on tensors. My focus is usually more on picks and I tend to forget about modifying tensor tools.

[Moosekace]

What effect do you guys think you would get if you rotated the shaped tip of the tension wrench so that its profile was on the same plane as the profile of the keyway? In other words, if femurat turned just the tip 90 degrees away from us as it is seen in his picture.

I'd say the wrench could no longer enter the keyway.

I use this wrench as a normal one, so its profile IS on the same plane of the keyway. Maybe I didn't understand your example... any chance to see it on a drawing or a picture?

Cheers

No I think you understood. But I think what i was trying to say was that there would be 2 90 degree bends in the pick. The handle and then a 90 into the lock and then another very short 90 back in the same direction that the handle came from. Just wide enough to fit into the bottom of the keyway and without the diamond on the end of yours. Ill try to bend one out this weekend and get a pick up.

[barbarian]

What about a piece of music wire with a sharp bend at the end, or just heat it and thump it with a hammer to get a flat ?

[maxxed]

Changing the contact point of the tension wrench in the keyway can make a huge difference in the feel of the lock. I carry several keyblanks shaved down so that only the bottom of the keyway is left. The head of the key is shaved so that it does not block the keyway and a hole is drilled in the remainder so that the end of a regular tension wrench can slide in an apply preasure.
I was looking for a tension wrench that would stay in place when picking a Y 1 type cylinder to the left when I made the first one. I made other keyways when I realized that it was a simple way to prevent master wafers from dropping into the open end of the keyway.
I recall seeing bottom keyway tension wrenches in a catalog ( i believe HPC ) and the claim that these tools did make a difference. I just checked the oldest catalog I have (1996 ) and the tools are not listed in there but I am sure that the catalog listing them is from the mid 80's