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blowtorch

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general questions here.

Moderators: digital_blue, zeke79

blowtorch

Postby Mr. Ules » Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:47 pm

This is probably very unprofessional for a professional locksmith, however, in a conversation I was having with friends, we were discussing wether or not a blowtorch would destroy a safe enough to open it. Could that work?
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Postby maldotcom2 » Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:18 pm

A standard blowtorch? :o i doubt it, now really, most safes are EXPLOSIVE PROOF!! so i dont think a standard blow torch will be much use i think you'd do much better with an oxyacetilene cutting torch, but i dont know much about safe locks. :P
The best lock pick is C4 followed by a sledge Hammer
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Re: blowtorch

Postby mbell » Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:05 pm

Mr. Ules wrote: Could that work?


No.

Nowhere near enough heat is produced.
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Re: blowtorch

Postby Murph » Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:56 pm

Mr. Ules wrote:This is probably very unprofessional for a professional locksmith, however, in a conversation I was having with friends, we were discussing wether or not a blowtorch would destroy a safe enough to open it. Could that work?

I'm not a locksmith, but I used to work in a shipyard; I did a lot of flame cutting on various types of steel. If you are a full-time locksmith and you can afford one, I recommend a plasma cutter. I used one on armor plating to a turret once. Cuts clean and fast, but my understanding is, they are expensive. You may want to speculate if you can get a good return on the purchase depending upon the frequency of the number of calls you get to "force" open a safe.
Just my two bits here.
I don't work, I participate.
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Postby hzatorsk » Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:30 pm

Depends on the safe... some small safes with exposed hinges could be opened with a blowtorch if you can get it to cut the hinges and provided it doesn't have hinge side door retainer lugs or bolts.

I don't expect you'll get through the wall or door as many safes are designed to dissipate heat of a torch with embedded (usually copper) plates. You may eventually get in (probably not)... but the whole thing is going to get hot and you'll burn through a whole lot of gas first.

Plasma gives you a much better chance. I've never had to torch a safe as there are much easier ways to get in.
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Postby mcm151201 » Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:12 pm

It seems to me it would just be easier and cheaper to buy a nice drill and safe drill bits :?
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Postby hzatorsk » Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:38 pm

Ding, ding, ding, ding! mcm151201 wins a prize. But the prize is stored inside a TXTL-60 rated burglary safe:

Clipped from: http://www.deansafe.com/FAQ.html where someone carefully wrote:Burglary Classification TXTL-60

Signifies a combination locked safe designed to offer a high degree of protection against attack by common mechanical and electrical tools, cutting torches, high explosives and any combination of these means. Has successfully resisted entry* for a net working time of 60 minutes when attacked with common hand tools, picking tools, mechanical or portable electric tools, grinding points, carbide drills, pressure applying devices or mechanisms, abrasive cutting wheels, power saws, impact tools, oxy-fuel gas cutting or welding torch, nitroglycerin or other high explosives equivalent to not more than 4 ounces of nitroglycerin in one charge (entire test must not use more explosive than that equivalent to 8 ounces of nitroglycerin).


...and you only have a small propane torch! :D
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blowtorch

Postby Mr. Ules » Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:58 pm

could someone with expirience in opening safes explain to me the most effective way to open a safe if the torch wont' work?
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Postby hzatorsk » Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:33 am

You open it with the combination... if you know it.

If that don't work... you can try various factory combinations... assuming the safe is new.

If that don't work... you can coerce the owner to give it up.

If that don't work... you can try to manipulate it. That is... feel/hear what's going on inside the lock and use that (with your insights on how the lock works) to figure out the combination.

If that don't work... you can force entry. Usually a drill and very specific knowledge about the lock (and container).

If that don't work (or you trip the relockers)... you got a long long night ahead of you. plasma torches, multiple drill points to reset relockers, etc... Whatever is in there... better be well worth it!!!

Consider the pages at:

http://money.howstuffworks.com/safecracking.htm
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Postby Darek84CJ » Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:39 am

Most plasma cutters will not cut beyond half an inch of steel. Even that amount requires a 2000 dollar investement in a plasma machine, not to mention an air compressor required to run it

A gas axe, or oxy-act torch requires only around a 500 dollar investment, and with the right tips can cut up to 5 inches of steel.
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Postby hzatorsk » Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:53 am

Darek84CJ,

Yeah! good point... I should have just said 'torch' and not 'plasma torch'.

...like I said earlier, I've never had to torch open a safe.

Harold
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Postby thertel » Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:55 am

A Thermic Lance would work nicely. It burns at 5538 degrees celcius and will melt and cut through just about anything. They are expensive though.

Check them out.
http://www.multipick-service.com/en/tools/primecut_en.htm

Thomas
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster.
And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
~Friedrich Nietzsche
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Postby pinky » Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:01 am

the right pick or a good drill is better
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Postby HeadHunterCEO » Sat Aug 14, 2004 6:31 am

as long as whatever is inside can deal with susttained hiugh temps which i am willing to bet will be very very high you should be straight.

ever hear of a vaccumm oven?

i am willinbg to bet anything that has a flame of anytime is going to cook off the atmosphere within the safe and turn it into one real fast although this is purely speculative.
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Postby S3rratedSp00L » Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:26 am

I doubt a standard blow torch would do anything at all to a safe.. it would barely heat it up.. You still might not want to touch it with your bare hands afterwards though ;)

A cutting torch or plasma cutter will cut very thick solid metal quite easily.. When I took some welding courses I used standard cutting torches to cut through solid steel that was several inches thick and the only problem was the occasional pop from moisture or something. Cutting torches heat up a molten pool of metal on the surface that actually forces it's way down cutting like butter! With solid metal they work great! I don't know how they would do on a safe though, because if a safe were made in layers with some sort of fire retardent in between, it may have an effect on torching ability.. I have never tried to stack layers of metal and cut them as one piece. I was told that it didn't work too well... Just a thought... Can anyone elaborate on this? Has anyone ever tried it? I don't think that I would recommend it. I would probably call in a specialist for this one! ;)

I guess they call them safes for a reason! :) Would this be the torch picking method? :twisted:
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