Lets try this again - American Lock 5200

[femurat]

Great idea ray!
Which direction I'll insert the wrench in the keyway? I guess the green one, otherwise I'll need a 90 degree bent close to the tip.

Thanks

[femurat]

Nevermind, with the spoke in my hands everithing became clear!

Cheers

[Safecrackin Sammy]

IronSmith,

I think you and I may have some of the same customers!

The A5200 and the government model [I think was a MS200 or something like that]
have been in the supply system for years as a general field service padlock.
They were never rated for use much other than low security general applications.

Can you elaborate slightly on your customers application and mission for opening
the padlock?

There is a shrouded version available [A5300] which uses the same 5/16" diameter
shackle size. Its the smaller version of the pricey A747 shrouded lock.
I've used the A5300 before on storage bins and it is a nice lock for the money.

[raimundo]

Yup, the one made of metal is what I was talking about, the nail head is too big so you cut it down exactly like that

but just now I got another idea about using the nailhead to make bottom of the keyway tensors for those keyways that require special fitting of the tensor, the nailhead could be shaped for a dedicated keyway, and polishe and rounded where It touches the cylinder wall, left rough for the grip on the sides of the keyway.

[femurat]

YEAH, in fact this wrench is very effective both top or bottom, depending on the size of the keyway. We can make different size spoke-wrenches to build a set...
This collaboration is giving unexpected results

[Artkrp]

I found that using a short tension wrench at the top of the keyway and using the technique described by Squelchtone works well for spp. Just remember to use a light touch on both the TW and your pick! For raking (which works very well for the 5200 in my humble experience) I use a peterson half-diamond and almost no tension. I don't even "rest" my finger on the TW. my finger barely touches and while raking in various motions and will increase or decrease the tension depending on lock feedback. I've found that depending on the biting, most 5200's can be opened pretty quickly with the raking method. SPP is more time consuming but always gets them open

[IronSmith]

Can you elaborate slightly on your customers application and mission for opening the padlock?

I have an NDA with my client, but the short-strokes of it are they are a three-letter agency/mil type group recently re-purposed to test secure facilities for the USG. They'll also be assisting with upgrades after the penetration. It is my understanding that their need is based on both these tasks, initial penetration and then removing sub-standard measures from elsewhere in the facility. I am assuming that they either so used to seeing the 5200 they expect to encounter a lot of it, or that they already see a lot of the GL variants misused, given their commonality, where a higher security lock should be in place. That is the way such things usually go, someone who should know better decides "Why buy 50 of X, when we already have a bunch of these in the supply chain with NSNs".

I appreciate everyones suggestions and ideas on this. I'm having a lot of fun with this project, and enjoying my "research" sessions immensely. I'm currently on the road and away from my locks and I miss it.
I took this project on as an excuse to revisit an hobby I'd let go dormant, and I'm quite glad for it. It's fun, and the community really can't be beat.
I'll let you all know what I shake out once I have time to play again!

[freakparade3]

Can you elaborate slightly on your customers application and mission for opening the padlock?

I have an NDA with my client, but the short-strokes of it are they are a three-letter agency/mil type group recently re-purposed to test secure facilities for the USG.

Say hi to my uncle Jim. He looks just like me, without the ink

[Safecrackin Sammy]

I deal more with the four letter people but they sometimes play together.

5200's were never really rated for any type of a secure environment short
of on a foot locker.

I would lean more towards the disc breaker for the 5200's but it may not
work as well on the GL's due to the key retention. GL's are actually kinda
rare to see anymore since most people just buy commercial versions.

There are other methods I have developed over the years depending on your
allowable time on station.

I only get on here during the weekends but let us know how things work out.

[Squelchtone]

I appreciate everyones suggestions and ideas on this. I'm having a lot of fun with this project, and enjoying my "research" sessions immensely.

To make entry easier for your operators, I think some sort of clamp would come in handy so if the lock is hanging on a staple of a hasp, it can be swung up so you can look at the keyway while you work, and kept in place using some sort of clamp that rests against the hasp and cradles the lock and clamps on to the shackle like a vise-grip in order to keep the bottom of the lock facing the operator at a desired angle.

what do you think?
Squelchtone

[Raymond]

I have made a drilling jig that works very well but it is not NDE.

[apb]

5200's were never really rated for any type of a secure environment short
of on a foot locker.

I agree with this, but unfortunately they are part of an armorers's tool. However, it's whats inside of those foot lockers that are the real question. That being said, they are only meant to supplement the live guard standing next to them ,possibly with a live magazine. They are used rather carelessly, and I think that because of the contents of the foot lockers, the military should at least use something such as the brinks shoruded which is much harder to pick due to one direction (CW),an extra pin and (slapping of the forehead) cannot just be lopped off with a $4 pair of walmart bolt cutters. These (5200's) get used on larger connex containers, ISU-90's and SOMETIMES, you will acutally see the Master 175 in its place (which most of you know are a joke for real security).

[raimundo]

squelchtone is going off about a way to clamp a padlock in use, I usually just use the padlock picking hold, but if it really needed to be 'clamped', I would start with wooden wedges, through the shackle hole, (small wedges cut from 5eights board ya know) of course this type of clamping can put pressure on the shackle and locking dogs but once the plugs onboard, you can pull the wedges. such wedges are also handy for holding doors open, holding doors closed, probably a lot more things.

I have a design for a wooden door wedge that is high in the middle and tapered to both ends, with a sandal strap across the middle so you can lift it on a foot and move it, and its always withing 180 degrees of being pointed the right direction, so no problems for the foot to place it when necessary.

[sh3llsh0ck]

Just opened my first 5200 Series Lock!!!! I feel like i won the olympics!

I had tried on and off for a few days, then started looking on here for more info. I tried the top keyway tension with a small tension wrench, and started raking with slight slight pressure. After a while i felt the tumbler move, so i turned. Nothing. I SPP'd for a while and found a false set, and click, it moved some more. I turned. Nothing. So, i picked up my heavier tension wrench and stuck it right down the middle of the keyway for leverage, turned, and it popped open. I love american locks!

Thanks for all tips you guys gave, all was helpful.

[LocksmithArmy]

congradulatinons...

I felt the same way

keep pickin