How many different types of Medeco 72s locks are there?

[jozq15]

Hey everyone!!!

I've spend a couple of months interested in locks and it only gets better. I've accumulated some interest in Abloy and especially Medeco. I'm currently trying to pick a 72s, but I noticed there are different types of 72s locks. I heard there is one with a locking bar and one without. I'll be honest, I havent really seen a diagram that has allowed the information to click in my head on how that works and how the biaxial pins work. I also don't understand not having a shear line. I bought one online to examine, but it wont arrive for another week. I'm like a child because I'm so impatient. lol Someone please throw some info my way. How many 72s are there? Sorry for all the questions.

thanks!!!!

[Squelchtone]

Hey everyone!!!

I've spend a couple of months interested in locks and it only gets better. I've accumulated some interest in Abloy and especially Medeco. I'm currently trying to pick a 72s, but I noticed there are different types of 72s locks. I heard there is one with a locking bar and one without. I'll be honest, I havent really seen a diagram that has allowed the information to click in my head on how that works and how the biaxial pins work. I also don't understand not having a shear line. I bought one online to examine, but it wont arrive for another week. I'm like a child because I'm so impatient. lol Someone please throw some info my way. How many 72s are there? Sorry for all the questions.

thanks!!!!

Hello Jozq15,

I have some links for you which should clear things up. Firstly, I believe there are 3 flavors of Medeco 60 Series cam locks. The first kind is Original, then Biaxial, and the newer kind is the Medeco 3, which is easy to identify by the much wider bottom of the keyway. 72s is not the model number on these locks, as I recently documented in another thread. I don't believe there was ever a Medeco cam lock that did not have a sidebar.

Links to explain the 51s and 72s stamping on the front of Medeco locks.
http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=36258&start=4

http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=43273&start=3


Now, to your other question about shear lines and information on how these locks work.

Traditional pin tumber locks such as Kwikset or Schlage rely on 1 point of locking, which happens to be the spring loaded pin stacks that a key pushes on in order to move the metal pins out of the way, thus creating a shear line and allowing for the key to turn the plug.

High security locks such as ASSA Twin, Schlage Primus, BiLock, and Medeco rely on 2 locking points so in case a bad guy actually manages to pick the 1st point, they still have to over come the 2nd point of locking before the plug is free to turn. In the case of a normal Medeco lock you have the key pins and then the angles of the key pins which when set properly, align gates in the pin so that the sidebar's fingers can insert into the grooves cut into the key pins and at that point the plug is no longer bound and can turn and open the lock.

In Medeco cam locks they had to figure out a way to save on space since the diameter of the cam lock is so much smaller than a regular rim or motrise cylinder, so they said, lets get rid of the key pin shear line and make it so the key only has to align little holes in the key pins with the fingers in the sidebar so it can insert into the keypins and not block the cylinder from rotating. One may think that the only think you have to do is rotate the pins so the holes align, but the keys still lift the pins AND rotate them, but all that work is done for the sake of aligning with the finger pins of the side bar. There is no driver pins above these key pins, only the springs.

Here is a picture of how the lock looks on the inside and of these holes drilled into the pins. There are also false holes which are not as deep and meant to inhibit the picking process.

From the Complete Book of Locks and Locksmithing by Bill Phillips p140


Hope this helps, if you have more questions feel free to ask!

Squelchtone

[Squelchtone]

Oh how I wish there was an edit button.

I think one of my links is a little off, here is the one I meant post:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=43273&start=1

Best Regards,

Squelchtone

[jozq15]

I bought a lock that has the biaxial logo on the left and 72s on the right.

My understanding is that the pins have holes on the sides that the side bar's pins sink into. Correct? So the main pins only for the side bar's pins to lock with ???

I noticed in videos its pick just like a padlock. Every time a pin would lock in the tension tool gives a little until it unlocks.

Thanks for the information!

[Squelchtone]

My understanding is that the pins have holes on the sides that the side bar's pins sink into. Correct?

Thanks for the information!

You're welcome.

Your understanding is correct. I took one of my camlocks apart just now, so here's some quick and dirty pics of that process.

The lock face of this Original Medeco camlock:


Some parts laid out:


Pins lined up, I had to pry the cover strip off. Notice real hole and false milled ring around the pins.
I suspect if you are picking and set the sidebar into the false groove, you can figure this out if the pin that is false set still allows for rotation.


The sidebar will not fall out, it is stamped in at 4 locations:


Trying to remove the sidebar looks something like this:


Nothing a Dremel can't fix. Here we are looking down into the sidebar slot:


Looking down the key pin chambers at the holes that the sidebar's legs enter to mate with the holes in the pins.


Here's the sidebar with a pin impaled on it and another pin showing the hole and false groove.



Sorry for the pics, my camera is not the best,

Squelchtone

[jozq15]

Those pictures were beyond helpful.

Looks to me that you have a huge collection. Did you just ruin that lock by removing that side bar support? That lock is definitely not cheap. Your efforts are appreciated and I definitely learned a lot.
thanks!!

[Squelchtone]

Those pictures were beyond helpful.

Looks to me that you have a huge collection. Did you just ruin that lock by removing that side bar support? That lock is definitely not cheap. Your efforts are appreciated and I definitely learned a lot.
thanks!!

Nothing is ruined is you learned something from the experiment. =)

I have a bunch of those locks, and frankly have never taken one apart, so it was fun and educational for the both of us.

have a good one,

Squelchtone

[jozq15]

Do you have any advice as to where I can buy that lock on the internet(and cheap)??

[Squelchtone]

Do you have any advice as to where I can buy that lock on the internet(and cheap)??

doesnt get any cheaper than this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Medeco-Cam-Lock-High-Security-NEW_W0QQitemZ320327255453


Cheers,

Squelchtone

[cool-arrow]

Nice breakdown of the lock Squelchtone, best breakdown I have seen so far of that lock

[Squelchtone]

Nice breakdown of the lock Squelchtone, best breakdown I have seen so far of that lock

Hey thanks cool-arrow, that mighty nice of you. I know we differ sometimes on opinions and details of things we discuss on IRC, so in the spirit of the holidays I thank you for your warm reply and hope we chat soon on IRC.

Squelchtone

[raimundo]

I do not believe that squelchy ruined that lock, if you look at the first photo, the cap is held on by four pressed indents along the edges, a bit like a jewelers prong setting for a diamond. he can still replace it and find some material on that edge away from the original prongs to strike new ones to hold the cap on.
of course, there are a limited number of times you can do this before its two chewed up to reuse, but he hasn't reached that yet. before resetting the cap, he should probably try to mount it with a tape wrap all around the lock pressing down on the cap, so that it is held firmly in position before he dings the edges with a straight blade screwdriver or whatever. He should also poise the plug in a wood swage block* or whatever to make it immobile


Such a block can be made by placing two wood blocks together in a vice and then using a drill to cut a round hole directly between them, this will produce two blocks with half the hole in each of them. These blocks will be very handy to have on a lock workbench.

[Safecrackin Sammy]

The lock is still good.

Just clean up any burrs around the side bar area so that it moves freely.
Then hold it in place while putting it back in the shell.
Once in the shell it stays in place all by itself.

Its normally not removed once installed at the factory so its peened in place
just to keep it from falling out if you disassemble the lock.

As a side note since I know some of you like to move the pins around to make a "new" lock
to work on.. When you encounter a brass cap as shown, it can be removed with little damage using
a hacksaw blade.

Put the cylinder in a vise. Take a hacksaw blade with the teeth on the brass cap facing the rear of the cylinder.
Tap the blade slightly down and to the rear with a small hammer. The teeth will grip the brass slide
and walk it out the back of the slot its in. Once out, just put it on edge and tap lightly to reform into
a "V" shape and it can be reinstalled.

[Korver15]

So I wanted to keep my Medeco streak going so I bought 11 cam locks off ebay thinking they would be a cheaper alternative to mortise cylinder. Turns out I didn't do my research. Cams are different wish I knew about this post before hand . Gutted them and thought I would share what I found in mine. Little fancier looking pins then the ones you pulled out. Looks like these are going in the box of shame for a while
If you are looking to buy a medeco do not buy a cam lock!
Unless you want to.

[GWiens2001]

Yeah, the first Medeco I tried to pick was a classic cam. Squelchtone can tell about my post about that. Went to a BiAxial, and made it into a practice lock. It was an LFIC, and had to modify the top of the mortise housing so the set screws would fit in the housing. Still have that one around here. Anyway, progressive pinning is the way to go, even with cam locks.

Gordon