PACLOCK

[WolfSpring]

Pacific Lock company, also known as PACLOCK http://www.paclock.com/Government_Padlocks.htm Found two of these doing my rounds in the container yard today. Thought they were Master DG, look exactly like them except smaller rivet studs and Serial number placement, even marked US on the oustside. Never heard of them before today. Got it back to the office, one was cut the other was beaten off with what looks like a 1/4-1/2 inch piece of metal(gerber maybe???). It is in the open position wiht a bent shackle. The cut one I picked in under 10 seconds. didn't need to clean them they couldn't have been out there more then a week. Seem a cheap Master/American Knock off. They keyway is the exact same as an American SL or 5200 series lock. Anyone else ever run into this brand? I'll see if I can't get some pics up after work.

[MacGnG1]

yes i have one its nice: http://paclock.com/images/95.jpg

[Squelchtone]

Pacific Lock padlocks aren't cheap in my opinion, but that's like comparing a Master No.3 to a Master ProSeries 6121. Each brand has lower and higher end models.

Pacific Lock was once called Federal Lock, but the govt actually asked them to change the name, and I heard this directly from the company owners wife at a locksmith show.

Squelchtone

[PACLOCK]

"Pacific Lock was once called Federal Lock, but the govt actually asked them to change the name, and I heard this directly from the company owners wife at a locksmith show."

Would the "owners wife" by my wife Jennifer, Josh's wife Madeline, or my mother-in-law Patty?

The name "Federal Lock" and the companies (yes, plural) that used that name over the years finally came to a head about seven years ago. A year into legal proceedings between the different Federal Locks I joined my family's company (one of the Federal Locks)... and quickly decided that the name "Federal Lock" was not worth keeping for one, simple reason ~ I was going to turn our family's business into a success story and that story would be a failure if we used the name "Federal Lock." So our family decided to change the name and settle the legal stuff with the other parties (nothing that involved the government... all private matters).

I am quite proud of where our company is today. We won away a large contract from Master Lock to produce those military padlocks you described here in the USA "U.S. made end products". Master produces them in Mexico. I think out quality on the military padlocks (the "100G" steel and "95G" brass) are exceptional considering the government pays around $3 for the steel and $5 for the brass. Keep in mind that we are producing these in the US for that price. Not to mention we are saving the US Government almost a half a million a year with this one contract versus what they spent (and still spend) with Master.

We also have seven disabled people on our staff assembling those padlocks and we're proud of that fact. While PACLOCK does have its roots in Federal Lock, my hope is that over the years the stigma of the Federal Lock era dies away as fewer people remember. We are a very different company today.

Sorry for the long winded message, but I happened by this string and couldn't help but post!

Greg

[WolfSpring]

Not to knock on Paclock at all, the model I took apart the other day, it's the exact same as a Master DG with an American Lock keyway, no security pins, easy to pick, easy to take apart(3 1/2 mins with a dremel cutting disk). I'm sure it's a great lock for common use, but what ticks me off is the military has gone from decent security locks to Master DGs now to PAC locks to put on Conexes that are in areas with no physical security except the lock itself, easy to cut, easy to pick. Military really needs to go back to better locks to protect our equipment overseas, but props on the fact it is made in America and it is just as good as a Master Lock for much less of the price.

[PACLOCK]

Don't blame the military for moving from a nice 5200GL style padlock (solid-body) to a laminated padlock (Master DG or our 100G). Blame the fact that the military produces a military spec (or commercial item description) and then commercial companies (like mine or Master's) finds ways to meet the spec for as cheap as possible.

The spec hasn't changed... what I mean is that the DG meets the same criteria as the 5200GLs did. Master got smart about seven years ago and realized that the CID allows for EITHER a laminated or solid-body construction so long as it can withstand 2,000lbs of a pull force test. The standard Master #1 does not because of its lever locking design. So, they put ball bearings in a laminated lock and, presto, you have a much cheaper-to-produce padlock that meets the military spec (or CID).

So about six years back, with the introduction of a compliant laminated lock, if you want a shot at winning the government bids for these padlocks you could no longer bid the solid-body design. You can't produce a solid-body padlock at a price that competes with the new laminated lock from Master.

Ever since then it's the laminated locks being sold to the military... except the GSA still requires solid-body on many of their NSN purchases. But for private snuffy in the field, he's getting a padlock purchased from the DLA and that means lowest bidder that meets spec... a laminated lock.

I'm proud of what our company is doing to support the military with our 100G military padlock. Just yesterday there was a news crew that came out and did a spot on our company ~ here's a link to the clip. It talks about what we've done as a small business who's been hiring disabled workers and people with troubled backgrounds to make the military locks.

http://www.cbs2.com/video/?id=119124@kcbs.dayport.com

Greg

[MacGnG1]

unfortunately, it usually boils down to price not quality. most people would rather put a 6 dollar master#3 on their shed than a secure lock that costs more than three times as much. its also hard to explain to people the difference between the two when they are really more concerned with price. since being part of the locksport community i *try* my best to get people to spend a bit more on a better lock, but its hard.

[Squelchtone]

Paclock: thanks for your replies. I was at the 2007 Yankee Security Expo in MA, so I'm not sure who I talked to but I did have lots of beers, so my facts may in fact be skewed.

As a locksport enthusiast and someone generally interested in military and high security padlocks, I was wondering how much cost per lock do security top pins add? I hope that your locks at least have a spool pin or two, versus Master, who although may very well pass a 2000 lb pull test, are pickable by every 15 year old in the country who can learn how by watching youtube or this forum. I would hope the govt spec included surreptitious entry in addition to brute force attack.

It would be a great write up and good service to our community if you could list, or link us to your various models specs, and show if they are 4 pin, 5 pin or 6 pin, and if they use any serrated, spooled, or mushroom pins. I'm sure everyone here would find that info valuable.

Many thanks and glad to see you on this forum,

Squelchtone

[LocksmithArmy]

I dont meen to sound un appreciative but i dont see whay you can be proud of your company for making the soldies in the various deployments less secure.

the laminated padlocks out here may be able to withstand 2000lbs... but can be picked quicker than it takes to use the key. I havnt seen a laminated padlock out here yet where the key works properly. you must wiggle the crap out of it to lock or unlock it and its a pain in the arse just to remove them for god only knows what reason....

and I thought the military standerd was the the padlocks had to have rekeyable cores... if you cant get in to the core (without destroying the padlock) than it is not rekeyable.

and as squelchtone mentioned... how much could it cost extra to throw in some security drivers...

PS
picked up 6 paclock padlocks yesterday(nice haul from a detail lol)... opened em all in less than 30 seconds... got 12 americans(from the same detail)... I didnt even open 1 in 30 seconds.

[PACLOCK]

Let me first apologize for a lengthy response. I hope, though, that my response shows my interest in this board and your thoughts/opinions. We are a humble company that is working hard to offer an alternative to what, from a military perspective, has been a one-horse show ever since Master bought American. More to the point, Master has had a monopoly for many years now with no competition.

When there’s no competition for government contracts, there aren’t any checks in place for competitive pricing. The fact that PACLOCK has teamed up with Lockheed Martin to produce what we feel are equivalent quality padlocks to the DG but at a 20% cost savings AND having them “U.S. made end products” versus Master’s Mexican end product is something our family is quite proud of.

As a former Army officer and West Point grad, I am very proud of the fact that I’ve put American’s back to work (including disabled workers and people with criminal backgrounds) and will save the US taxpayers nearly $6M over the life of this contract (versus what the government would have paid to Master).

The spec doesn’t call for a removable cylinder (technically it’s a “Commercial Item Description” CID). That’s one of the ways Master pushed out the American 5200GL (and our Federal solid-body padlock) years ago. The spec doesn’t call for it, so that means a laminated lock can be brought in non-rekeyable style.

In terms of adding security drivers, we honestly talked about it today after reading posts from these boards. From what our research and experience shows with the DGs they also lack any sort of security pins or drivers.
It begs the question, how does a PACLOCK 100G stand up to a DG in terms of picking? I realize that a solid-body American is far superior… but as I’ve explained above you’re talking an entirely different class of product at this point. What is your experience with the DGs? How resistant are those locks to being picked?

Again, I hope you’ll excuse my long response. I am passionate about what we’re doing and know that improvements can be made. But it’s been our experience that our cylinders in the 100Gs actually have better tolerances and operate more smoothly than the DGs. We’ve never much worried about picking because (1) the DGs that we have don’t have any security pins and (2) the government literally calls these locks “low security.”

Just to put things into perspective… you pay more for a gallon of gas than the government is paying me to manufacture the 100G… and don’t forget that I’m doing it as a US-made end product. So every penny does count from our perspective. As for the cost of adding some security drivers, it could honestly mean the difference between long term profitability or losses.

If I could charge what Master gets for these locks, then I wouldn’t have any gripes over putting them in. But in order to get our foot in the door and win this first contract we had to come in about 20% lower than Master (that’s considerable).

I’d really appreciate your candid comments on the DGs… we believe we are manufacturing at least a comparable product (hopefully superior) to the DG. How do we compare there?
Thanks,
Greg

[Solomon]

LSA, what applications are those kind of locks used for out there anyway?

[PACLOCK]

PS ~ both my wife and I have had a friendly laugh at squelchtone's "had a few beers" comment! It was likely Marilyn that you talked to at Yankee simply because we're (all of the owners) in LA and we don't tend to make it out to Yankee. Normally Bob and Marilyn go to the show for us. Too funny!

[LocksmithArmy]

ok so you are trying to create a master dg equivilant...

well congradulations... they are exactly the same to me. pickability and durability.

I agree master has a monopoly right now... the american 5200 used to have 10 security pins(drivers and keypins) but lately people have been spotting normal pins in them... thanks to master

but from my perspective, why would you stop at equaling the master dg.
if you have 20% to play with than play with it... be 10% cheaper and 10 time more pick resistant with the same durability.

How are these locks tested. I have noticed a problem with them when they get dirty the keys stop working properly... and in iraq they get dirty quickly.
yours and the DGs

Paclock used to be Federal lock co right? you guys have been competing with master forever huh. in my city they use these master locks, but on the older applications they find federal lock co locks... same lock same key... just an observation.

[LocksmithArmy]

LSA, what applications are those kind of locks used for out there anyway?

Everything from securing computer sheds or electrical transformers to fenerator boxes... pretty much everything.

[LocksmithArmy]

generator boxes... ot fenerator