old american 747 padlock

[femurat]

I got this huge padlock from our fellow member ThE_MasteR.
I cleaned it and started with the assembly. First of all I put the 2 balls in (no pun intended), then assembled the spring and washer on the brass part that holds the locking balls (sorry I don't know its name).







I put the piece inside the padlock and checked it with a screwdriver, it works: if rotated it release or lock the shackle.
Unfortunately, once the spring and washer are inserted in their slot, the protruding quarter of circle sits on the wrong side.
I say wrong because it's exactly where the half circle protruding back from the plug is supposed to be, preventing it from being inserted.

I've tried to load the spring but it can't be turned enough. I can turn it 90 degrees, but not 180. Well, actually I can, but the spring is strong and as soon as I release the screwdriver it returns to its initial position, and the shackle pops open. I've tried this both CW and CCW and had no luck.

Am I doing anything wrong? Thanks for any input



On a side note, one of the keys is bent and can't be fully inserted. I'm going to attempt to straighten it by clamping it in a vice. Is this a good idea or should I leave it alone?

Thanks

[gloves]

About the key, I'd say leave it alone. If it is stiff it will break sooner with all this bending motion and simply squeezing it in a vice may not straighten it but you'd need to push it a little more on the opposite side.
Way better to copy that on something else. At worst you can also try how copying its profile on a folded aluminium can and keeping some room to insert a tension wrench can make your lock work.

As for the spring, I didn't quite yet figure out what you tried. Did you try it in a position and on its opposite? Could you please explain it again?

Thank you

[femurat]

Thanks for the warning gloves, I'll leave the key alone. I have 2 keys so one is enough to operate the lock.

About the spring, let's try to better explain what I did.
The spring and washer can be mounted just one way, if I'm not mistaken. There's a hole for the spring arm in the brass plug, and the washer must be on top of it. You can see how I mounted them on the second picture.
When I push it in the lock hole, the 2 locking balls are kept in their holes by some grease and the shackle is closed.
This actuator reaches the bottom, and the spring arm and washer protrusion are in their groove, as you can see in picture 4.
Now the problem is: I can't fit the core in its hole, because the actuator has a protrusion that should match the half cut cylinder on the back, but they would overlap, preventing the lock core to be fully inserted. Look at picture 4.
To solve this I could rotate the actuator 90 degrees CCW or 180 degrees CW. This rotation put the protruding quarter of the actuator on the free side, the bottom side in picture 4. I've tried both 90 degrees CCW and 180 degrees CW but it didn't work.

That's why I'm asking if I did something wrong, and if I should use some trick to assemble this padlock.

Thanks

[Squelchtone]

Hi femurat!

Have you tried to insert core and keep pushing it into lock, insert key and turn key to see if it would load the spring that way?

Take a look here at Page 4: http://www.americanlock.com/pdfs/A-004_Service_Manual_2010.pdf

Good luck,
Squelchtone

[femurat]

Hi Squelchy, thanks for the link. The picture at page 4 shows the actuator at the same angle as mine. That's a good thing. Maybe I just need to play a little with the key... I'll try and let you know.

Ciao

[MacGyver101]

If it's of any help, here's a picture of the same (similar?) actuator, installed in an American 700:

Somewhat confusingly, it does look like the tab on the actuator is rotated 180° from mine (even accounting for the fact that I photographed my lock body the other way around: sorry)? This may be a red herring, though: they're different models of lock.

[keysman]

femurat :
Was that lock EVER completely assembled? or did you get it as parts ( ie. unassembled)?
I am thinking you may not have the correct driver/ core for that lock. I don't have a 747, but I do have some other Americans and will look later on today.

[femurat]

Thanks for the pictures MacGyver, our padlocks are not that different, those pictures were useful.

I've tried to fit the core without the half circle that limit the key rotation to 90 degrees and I managed to operate the lock, but I had to turn the plug 180 degrees in order to push it all the way in and engage the actuator. once inserted the key cannot be turned back to remove it, so it's not possible to assemble the bottom this way.

I' ve never seen this lock assembled, as you can see in the BST thread linked from my first post, I got it in parts. I think you're right keysman, the core may not be the right one
I'll ask the seller if he's sure he sent me the right core, and if he had seen the lock assembled.

Thanks to all for the help, I'll let you know how this ends.

Cheers

[Raymond]

Go ahead and bend you key. It probably will not hurt it at all but since it does not work now you have nothing to lose. Put the key in the vise right up to the bend and gently tap the bow with a hammer.

The key core for the 747 looks about right. But, the spring tip and flat plate should be on top and fully seated in the cutout notch. The center part contacted and turned by the plug needs to be on the left bottom position. As is, the center detent will not go deep enough because the shallow cut out for the ball bearing goes on the shackle spring side. It is the shackle retainer.

[femurat]

ThE_MasteR replied he disassembled the lock himself and all the parts are here, so now I know it can be done.

Thanks Raymond, I'll reread your explanation with the lock in my hands and try to follow your instructions.

Also, I've tried to reassemble the lock with the shackle close. I'll try with the shackle open too, maybe this makes a difference.

Cheers

[Squelchtone]

Yono has an interesting video with a special tool/jig for compressing the shackle posted on youtube, perhaps this will help? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYLv9zc_tUY

Thank you Yono for always coming up with cool tools and helpful ideas!
Squelchtone

ps. I think we should all chip in and get him a new webcam though! =)

[nhoj_yelbom]

These are very hard to assemble, i have done mine twice. You have to load the spring ccw maybe more than 190 degrees until shackle locks again then you can release and install cylinder. Its a big pita

[femurat]

That's exactly the info I needed, thanks nhoj_yelbom, I'll try that and let you know.

Cheers

[femurat]

I wasn't able to rotate the actuator more than 180 degrees with a flat screwdriver, so I made myself a bamboo actuator turner by cutting out a quarter of circle close to the end of a bamboo piece. I started to rotate the actuator and after 90 degrees the lock was open and the shackle popped out. I pushed it back and continued turning, so it was close again and at the right angle to insert the core. Unfortunately as soon as I released tension the actuator spring pushed it back and the lock was open again. This already happened before.
At this point I started to turn the actuator while keeping the shackle closed, and rotated it more or less 270 degrees CW. Then I let the shackle free and it popped out. Since the ball in contact with the shackle was preventing the actuator to turn, I was able to release tension and remove the actuator turner.
At this point I just fitted the core and I tested it a couple of times before securing it in place by closing the lock cover.
The spring is so strong that inserting and removing the key is a bit difficult, but it works.

In short, if you have to assemble a 747 just rotate the actuator CW 270 degrees and let the shackle open before trying to insert the core.



I also followed Raymond suggestion and straightened the bent key by tapping it with a small rubber hammer while it was in the vice. Now I have 2 working keys.

Thanks to all who helped me with this task, it's easy when you know what to do!

Cheers

[Sublimis]

Sorry to dig up an old post...

I have an old rusty 747 with a date of 75. It still works I would just like to break it down to clean it...
How does this lock come apart? It does not have a screw on the inside where the shackle is. The metal cover that protects the keyway does move just not to sure on how to remove it.
Any help would be great!

Thank you!