Knowing when a pin is down

[Nem]

im a beginner so i dont relaly know what im talking about, please correctme if im wrong
but a pin consists of 2 seperate parts amd a key works by pushing the entire pin up or down until the gap between the 2 seperate parts is aligned with the edge of the plug which allows it to turn
this would mean that you dont push the entire pin up past the plug, but how can you tell whether or not you've pushed it enough so the gaps line up?

[CitySpider]

If you're applying a proper amount of tension, and you're manipulating a pin that'll set, you'll feel it through your wrench. I suggest you take a look at the MIT guide -- it should answer any basic questions you have.

[Nem]

do you HAVE to start at the back and work forwards? cos i tried setting the first pin (nearest the front) just to get the feel for how much tension is needed but no matter how much i applied theres no way you can feel or hear it line up

how much tension do you need to apply? can you equate it to anything that you would do on a day to day basis?

[marso]

I had it describe as if i balanced a couple medium sized coins on my finger. The downward pressure that the coins give is similar to the pressure that you require to place on the wrench.

You can try to apply different amounts of tension (but we are only talking very soft) and try setting the first pin (as this is the easiest to play with). When you hear it click you should be able to put the pick under it move it up then it will drop from gravity and not from the force of the spring.

The MIT guide listed above talks about good exercises to do, I would not be extra focused on poping the lock open to start with. More place the pick in the lock apply different amounts of tension and see how different the pins feel.

[CitySpider]

do you HAVE to start at the back and work forwards? cos i tried setting the first pin (nearest the front) just to get the feel for how much tension is needed but no matter how much i applied theres no way you can feel or hear it line up

how much tension do you need to apply? can you equate it to anything that you would do on a day to day basis?

Depends on the lock, depends on the lock, and no, not really, because it depends on the lock.

I'd bet a dollar that it's less than you think you need, though.

[Chubby]

Nem,
I'm assuming that you do have a tension tool, this will realy only work if you have your cylinder in a vice & the key for it etcetra, don't try this on a padlock! (And this is nothing more than an example!)
Put the key in the key way and turn it 90º, place the handle of the tension tool into the keys keyring hole, lightly rest your index & middle finger on the tension tool, furthest away from the key. lightly begin to apply tension, keep an eye on the plug, or if you are using a profile cylinder the cam. When you see it turn, that is about as close as you will can get as to how much tension is needed, now if you repeat all of the the above except this time your touch is so light you don't even see the plug or cam move but you can feel the vibration of them moving via your finger tips that is what you need to train your muscles into memorizing. It is the mastering of the tension tool that presents the biggest challange in the whole lockpicking process, used incorrectly the tension tool will actually do more to defeat you than assist you, it is all a matter of delicacy and feel so practicing is paramount....

Now your picking order, the pin hole alignment can be perfectly straight centre line/right off set centre line/left off set center line/or random, to find out what you have here's what I normally do:
Insert your tension wrench into the key way and apply medium to firm tension anti-clockwise, insert a diamond pick all the way to the back of the plug and rake two or three times, and make a note of what pins have set high and what pins have not, now turn the tension clockwise and do the same again.
If the rear pins set high when anti-clockwise tension was applied, & the front pins set high when clockwise tension was applied you have right hand centre line off set, if the opposite happened you have left hand centre line off set, & if middle to front set high in both directions (ie:no change) you have random.

If you are still confused about what pin alignment is, go back to the MIT guide there are some pictures, Chapter 6 "Basic Scrubbing" Figure 6.2:

As for what direction to pick, my personal preference is from the rear to the front, some locks won't pick this way I know! but that is where a plug spinner comes into play.

[marso]

Nice examples, didnt think of them myself.

[Timmy321]

wouldn't it be easier to pick from the front to the back? I mean if your adding tension to it wouldn't the first one be binding the most?

[CitySpider]

wouldn't it be easier to pick from the front to the back? I mean if your adding tension to it wouldn't the first one be binding the most?

Nope. What matters is how off-center the pins are. Front to back isn't really an issue. I'd try to explain why, but I'm not really sure why you think it would be.

[Timmy321]

wouldn't there be more force (from the tension wrench) toward the front and less as it goes to the back? Explain...I'm sure I'm wrong, but if I don't ask questions how am I going to learn the MIT guide didn't really give me a direct answer thanks

[CitySpider]

wouldn't there be more force (from the tension wrench) toward the front and less as it goes to the back? Explain...I'm sure I'm wrong, but if I don't ask questions how am I going to learn the MIT guide didn't really give me a direct answer thanks

Oh, okay, now I'm following. There'd almost have to be, yes, but just ignore it, and assume that the entire cylinder is turning with the same force. The miniscule difference in force (if there even is one -- I don't know physics) is of less consequence than the flaws in the positioning of the pins.

[Timmy321]

what I gathered from what you said is that it doesn't matter what order you pick them in?

[CitySpider]

what I gathered from what you said is that it doesn't matter what order you pick them in?

No, it matters what order you pick them in. Short version: You pick them from most binding pin to least binding pin. It's a matter of which is sticking, not a matter of which is at the front of the cylinder or the back of the cylinder.

[Timmy321]

so it doesn't matter if it's the front of the cylinder or the back? as long as it's the front or the back? It would seem to me that the first pin would be binding the most, then the second and the third and so on ect. So how exactly do you find the pin that's binding the most?

[Timmy321]

I get it you find which one is the "stiffest" ok I found another post after searching really, really hard. ok well that works, which is the stiffest is that right? Also what happens if you hit the loosest?