Ok, here's the deal:

Newbies tend to ask "which pickset" questions quite often. What if I need slimline picks? "I don't want to spend money on a PXS-14 set then find I need another slimline one..." "which tension tool?" etc.

What I'm trying to do is put together a listing of what the general population of LP101 think should go into a newbie pickset (can we improve on the PXS-14 as a standard newbie set?). The idea is that if enough people on this forum contribute and/or the interest in buying this type of set is high then perhaps Lockpickshop.com (the venerable sponsors of this site) would be kind enough to put it together in a package with the spirit of "the whole is cheaper than the sum of it's parts".

as a general rules it should cost no more than $35US (The price of a PXS-17 set), prefferably no more than $25 (the price of a PXS-14), and idealy under $20 because that's a nice round number.

so here is/are my suggestions:
---------------------------

Standard Small half diamond ($3.90 - MP04/$1.50 - SP07)
Standard Small hook ($3.90 - MP07/$1.50 - SP09)
Standard Snake rake ($3.90 - MP09/$1.50 - SP10)
Slimline Small half diamond (N/A - similar to normal)
Slimline Small hook (N/A - similar to normal)
Slimline Snake rake (N/A - similar to normal)

Standard Broken key extractor($1.50 - SP13)?
Standard Half Ball (N/A - assuming similar to normal)?

Short twist/flex wrench ($1.40 - TW02)
Standard wrench ($1.10 - TW01)
Slimline normal wrench ($1.10 - TW11)

PXS-14 Leather case ($9.95 - PXS-14C)
MPXS-11 Leather case ($8.95 - MPXS-11C)

total price so far (give or take a couple of dollars depending on the price of the slimline picks):
Metal Handled Picks (MP) and larger case: $42.35
Standard picks (SP) and smaller case: $24.55
-------------------
The reason that I chose a normal half ball is because of the tendancy of wafer locks to be low security with comparitively large keyways..(or so I've found)

Without the half ball, and the broken key extractor, the price comes down to $21.55.

a case could also be made for the non-inclusion of the slimline snake rake (the idea being that if the keyway is so small that you need a slimline pick, then you won't have room to rake) in which case the price would come down to $20.05

-------------------
Ok, LPS was able to do the 11 piece metal handle set for $29.95 - with eight picks and three wrenches. the sum of those parts comes to at least $36.25... perhaps LPS can knock off a few bucks from the first price above ($24.55) to bring it down to under $20 with the inclusion of the half ball, broken key extractor and the slimline snake... perhaps we could include a double ended pick? if so, what type? snake and hook? W rake and half diamond?

Also there is the option of substituting the metal handled for the standard picks, raising the price accordingly.
-------------------

one final note - I am trying to stick with products available from LPS because they have good prices, southord picks (which are good for newbies) and they give us a bit of a discount when we mention this site when purchasing. I've been told that there will be about a 3-4 week wait before the slimline picks will be available individually. (there: they can probably now link my forum id to my real name oh well...)

Please: Comments, additions etc.

No rants please, this is not a ranty topic - keep it proffessional, it will be more effective that way.

Cheers!
WhiteHat

one point -- i prefer mpsx picks, as they have handles and are more comfortable... dont have to mess with that brass thing either.

I would say to scrap the standard half diamond, hook and rake, in favor of the slimlines. You may wish to include a double on the hook though.

Broken key extractor... Ive never found it useful for anything, and certainly not extracting broken keys!

Ball pick, just use the half diamond instead.

Looks like you are getting closer and closer to a basic Southord Slimline set, but with the inclusion of extra tension wrenches.

The only thing I could want to add would be the SouthOrd diamond hook, and the long ripple rake. But this essentially gets us right to the SouthOrd C801 with some additional tension tools.

Lockpickshop already gives our members 10% off, what else can we reasonably ask thme to do?

Here's what I think should go into a Deluxe (as in, not basic) Newbie Picking Set:

Standard small half diamond ($1.50 - SP07)
Standard small hook ($1.50 - SP09)
Standard snake rake ($1.50 - SP10)
Short twist/flex wrench ($1.40 - TW02)
Double-ended wrench ($1.40 - TW18)

Total cost: $7.30

I think that the purpose of a newbie set should be to allow you to learn how to pick, and allow you to learn whether you like picking enough to buy some of the rarer/more specialized/more expensive picks.

I'd say slimlines instead of regulars if they were individually available, but they're not. I think it's better to learn on handle-less picks -- A, it's cheaper, and B, it teaches you to be lighter with your picks.

A key extractor isn't a lockpick, a ball pick (and whatever variants) is redundant and usually never used, I've never ever found a use for the slimline wrench, and I think the case is an unnecessary $10, considering that anyone who stays interested is likely to buy a full set later on.

Just my two cents,
Spider

I'd say:

Half hook
Half diamond
Snake rake
Slimline half hook
Slimline half diamond
Slimline snake rake

In my opinion I like to have all the tension wrenches so you can never go wrong. Also the double prong tension wrench would be handy.

keep the thoughts comming in! thanks for the feedback so far.

2 things:

the reason I was hoping to put it all into a newbie set is that purchasing the picks/wrenches individually is usually more expensive regardless of where you go - count up the cost of the individual pieces in any set, then compare that to the price of the set...

also: LPS has told me that slimline picks will be able to be purchased INDIVIDUALLY within 3 to 4 weeks..

if we come to the conclusion that there are already "perfect" newbie sets out there then great! but if not, then let's build one...

as my newbie set I got:

small half diamond
small hook
snake rake ("c rake")
double-ended tension wrench

all with the stainless handles. I think the handles were definately worth the extra money, esp. since you have to have min. $10 to order.

the only thing I really want is more tension wrenches, a smaller one would be nice for the small padlocks as the TW-18 takes up most of the keyway, and I would like one of those small 2 pronged ones for wafers.

were slim picks available individually i would definately want copies of them all in slim, as some keyways are a (schlage, small padlocks) with the regulars. I can still get them though - it's just awkward at first having no room to work.

I would like to see a "W" or"Jagged" included

Ok I tied to ask this in another forum and it was taken off....so lets try again all the web sites say to order picks from them you need to be a locksmith or someone who is in a similar line of work to order? So does that mean I can not order without breaking the law? I live in Ca.
Also was wondering if euro slim picks work on american locks? If not do I really need to include them in my set that I buy? Thanks for any info you can give me.....If for some reason this post will be remove like the last time please let me know why. thanks

PLease disrecard the first part of this post with laws for Ca. , but still would like to know if euro slim pick work on american locks?

yes they will work and are better than standard southord tools in more restrictive keyways such as yale, schlage, etc. The standard tools are better for the beginners as they are more durable and will stand up to more abuse as new pickers tend to use way to much tension. Hope that helps out some.

since u will be adding slimline picks u should the reach tool cause its only in the slimline sets.

.... just for the record - I've realised now that this thread was started out of nievety and don't think it's such a great idea anymore - especially since at some stage southord slimline's will be available from LPS and lockpicks.com individually - in fact lockpicks.com told me that they have them in stock but havn't put them on the site yet - that was about a week ago....

I believe that the standard snake rake is much better than the slimline. I also like the standard half diamond as well. My n00bie set would contain:

-1 Standard MPXS feeler (half hook) pick
-1 Slimline handled feeler pick
-1 Standard MPXS snake
-1 Standard MPXS L-rake (the newbies seem to love that pick)
-1 twist-flex tension wrench (short)
-1 twist-flex tension wrench (long)
-1 standard tension wrench

thanks for the info. I just have one more question if you don't mind. Southord. refered me to there west coast shop lockpicks.com because I am in Ca. there a little more expensive but that's ok I don't mind spending the money if I get what I pay for. My question is which would be the better set the 32 piece set for 74.95 or the 69 piece set for 139.95? Like I said before I don't mind spending the money if I get what I pay for. Also if you guys really think it is a good idea for me to buy a much smaller and cheaper set then I will I just don't like buying things twice when I could have save some money and got it right the first time. Thanks again