spp and raking

[superchicken]

I have 12 locks, and of those 12 I can successfully spp 9 of them 90% of the time. I started off with some home made hacksaw picks I made and then I bought a southford set after some time.

I cannont rake open any of those locks. From what I have read using a rake is a fast way to open a lock but I cannot do it, I can only SPP them open. Does anyone else have this problem??

[saidin]

I do!
But I don't see it as much of a problem, SPP is more satisfying imo

[freakparade3]

Do you know hoe to use a rake properly? If you are not using the tool right it will not do you any good.

[cracksman]

I can't rake, I tried a bit when I started picking, but found single pin picking more enjoyable. I have seen people do it though and I have been very impressed. Raking is an art in itself. Although people who are good at it make it look easy, it takes the same practice as picking pin by pin, and i imagine around the same amount of time to get decent at it (just a guess). In fact when i look at all the rakes I have, it seems more thought goes into the design of them than any average pick.

I guess my point is, your getting good at skiing, but wonder why you can't snowboard, even though you haven't practiced much (sorry only analogy that came to me...). The principals are the same, but its new muscle memory and practice. So the good news is that now that you have learned how to tension well, your half way there. The bad news is, just got to practice (if thats bad news )

*my only issue with raking is that over time it may damage your locks and loosen their tolerances. I imagine with some practice though you could do it gently enough to cause little damage. Well, now you are making me break out all my old rakes and giving it a go. Would like to hear from someone who is good at raking. Also some people will rake first to set as many pins as possible, then single pick the rest. It might be a good exercise to try, I think I will.

Good Luck

Cracks

[Eyes_Only]

I used to be pretty good at raking with my diamond pick years ago but that was when I was only picking Kwikset and simple Schlage locks. Ever since I started to work on high security locks like Medeco and Mul-T-Lock I've got into the habit of working on SPP and since then I've lost my touch at raking except for wafer locks.

Raking is good but only on a few locks. Keep improving and move up to more advanced locks and raking has less and less of a application so I would really think of it as a compliment. Plus I really think it has to do with each persons personality and mental ability.

[Bandit_b]

Raking only looks easy, it also takes some skill to do it. Probably the most important is how much tension you apply. Although I find spp more enjoyable than raking and I practice it more.

[CVScam]

I know when I first started all I did was rake open locks. I was only doing kwicksets, padlocks, other simple locks. It worked great untill I hit locks that had lots of high low pins. I was then forced to learn SSP I can rake some spool pin locks to the false set but locks with serratted pins I have almost no luck raking open.

[adamd]

Being quite new to this sport I have found that getting stuck SPP'ing and then resorting to raking gives me immediate satisfaction, but shortly after makes me all the more frustrated at not being unable to spp in the first place

[AlexMHH]

I used to only be able to rake, now, after a several year break, I starting picking again. Initally, I could still only rake, but now after practicing for several weeks, I'm only able to SPP. They deffenately seem to be independant skills from one another.

[eurolock fan]

I've found if you jiggle a rake instead of scrubbing it causes less damage.

[dmux]

i like to rake, i can open some locks up in under a second but it is not as challenging as SPP and you dont learn as much about the locks pin layout

[le.nutzman]

I'd have to say that the best thing that raking offers me is a false set. Once I hit the false set, then I resort to SSPing a lock and 9 times out of 10, i'll defeat the lock.

NOW, is that going to work for everyone and get the same outcome, probably not. As previously stated, raking in itself is an art that must be practiced to master. I can rake open a Masterlock #3 in under 5 seconds. However, I can SPP the same lock in under 10. The difference? As also previously stated, when I SPP the lock, I learn more about the inner workings and possible pinning of the lock.

I'm not going to tell you that raking is absolutely worthless, because IMHO, I rake first, SPP second, defeat lock third in almost every case, but that's just me.

As far as the raking movement is concerned, if you're jiggling the rake I would have to surmise that you are now trying to reproduce the movements that a Bogata is designed to use, not a rake. You know, the fast coffee jitters move? That's more along the lines of a Bogata style technique.

My personal rake technique? Place tension wrench in lower offset keyway, insert said rake (we'll say an S rake for sake of the conversation) to backstop. BARELY place finger weight on tension wrench and hold. Lift rake from bottom of keyway to top while withdrawing rake from keyway is such a way that by the time the tip of the rake hits the last pin, the rake itself is at a downward 45 degree angle. No more than 5x in the lock, then SPP from there, usually defeating the lock within a minute or two, three at max.

[le.nutzman]

****NOTE**** As I normally do, I forgot to mention that MOST of the locks that I deal with on a regular basis are Amercian 5200 series padlocks, and an ocassional off brand residential and what not. The aforementioned rake technique is applied to ALL locks but has been found to work consistantly with American 5200s.***NOTE***

[XOR]

I cannont rake open any of those locks. From what I have read using a rake is a fast way to open a lock but I cannot do it, I can only SPP them open. Does anyone else have this problem??

Yes it will happen if you don't practice raking much. My technique is to rake a lock first before SPP.


Disc Wafer Locks

I always rake open disc wafer locks with a double stacked ball pick. The motion is a light raking and then putting the pick to the rear of the lock and jiggling up and down as I move the the front of the lock. I've never come across a wafer lock yet that has stood up to this.

Pin Tumbler Locks

Raking these locks works perhaps 25-50% of the time or more for me. Maybe 60% if I keep trying and don't feel like single pin picking the lock. I use three primary picks for raking: Deep cut W snake. Diamond Pick. Single hump pick from the LAB pick set.

The Snake Pick will work very quickly when it does work but requires a brisk in and out motion with light tension. You may have to reset the lock multiple times before you achieve success. Many times I'll set multiple pins with the rake, keep tension, and then work the remaining pins with a hook to open the lock or will just insert the snake and work it up and down from back to front to open the lock.

The diamond pick and hump pick from the LAB set work very much the same. My technique for these picks is light tension and insert the pick so that the pick rides the pins at the lowest level going into the lock. Many times the mere insertion of the pick under tension I can set multiple pins. I'll then draw the pick in and out a few times keeping the light tension and being sure I'm not mashing the pins above the shear line. If that fails, I'll reset the lock, apply light tension, and insert the pick to the rear of the lock and jiggle it up and down again back towards the front. Again, you can normally set multiple pins quickly. Stuck pins can often be had by keeping tension, re-inserting the pick and repeating.

I've opened many locks with these basic techniques and three picks. I have a couple master locks that will open almost instantly just with the diamond pick/hump pick being inserted into the lock. I've opened up spooled Abus Diskus 24/70 locks in under 30 seconds with these techniques. I've even opened some American padlocks with serrated pins a couple times, but these are much harder and inconsistent.

As always, the secret usually is to use very light tension when picking locks. If you think you are not using enough tension you may be using too much. Sometimes you run across locks that need strong tension (like Abus Diskus knockoff locks with sticky shackles), but most of the time too much tension is the kiss of death when picking whether it is raking or SPP.

One final tip: Try using top tension in the keyway instead of bottom tension. Be sure you don't stick your tension wrench in too far to jam the top pin though. I've been using top tension almost exclusively now and have had far better luck picking locks that in the past gave me a lot of trouble.

[le.nutzman]

I cannont rake open any of those locks. From what I have read using a rake is a fast way to open a lock but I cannot do it, I can only SPP them open. Does anyone else have this problem??

Yes it will happen if you don't practice raking much. My technique is to rake a lock first before SPP.


Disc Wafer Locks

I always rake open disc wafer locks with a double stacked ball pick. The motion is a light raking and then putting the pick to the rear of the lock and jiggling up and down as I move the the front of the lock. I've never come across a wafer lock yet that has stood up to this.

Pin Tumbler Locks

Raking these locks works perhaps 25-50% of the time or more for me. Maybe 60% if I keep trying and don't feel like single pin picking the lock. I use three primary picks for raking: Deep cut W snake. Diamond Pick. Single hump pick from the LAB pick set.

The Snake Pick will work very quickly when it does work but requires a brisk in and out motion with light tension. You may have to reset the lock multiple times before you achieve success. Many times I'll set multiple pins with the rake, keep tension, and then work the remaining pins with a hook to open the lock or will just insert the snake and work it up and down from back to front to open the lock.

The diamond pick and hump pick from the LAB set work very much the same. My technique for these picks is light tension and insert the pick so that the pick rides the pins at the lowest level going into the lock. Many times the mere insertion of the pick under tension I can set multiple pins. I'll then draw the pick in and out a few times keeping the light tension and being sure I'm not mashing the pins above the shear line. If that fails, I'll reset the lock, apply light tension, and insert the pick to the rear of the lock and jiggle it up and down again back towards the front. Again, you can normally set multiple pins quickly. Stuck pins can often be had by keeping tension, re-inserting the pick and repeating.

I've opened many locks with these basic techniques and three picks. I have a couple master locks that will open almost instantly just with the diamond pick/hump pick being inserted into the lock. I've opened up spooled Abus Diskus 24/70 locks in under 30 seconds with these techniques. I've even opened some American padlocks with serrated pins a couple times, but these are much harder and inconsistent.

As always, the secret usually is to use very light tension when picking locks. If you think you are not using enough tension you may be using too much. Sometimes you run across locks that need strong tension (like Abus Diskus knockoff locks with sticky shackles), but most of the time too much tension is the kiss of death when picking whether it is raking or SPP.

One final tip: Try using top tension in the keyway instead of bottom tension. Be sure you don't stick your tension wrench in too far to jam the top pin though. I've been using top tension almost exclusively now and have had far better luck picking locks that in the past gave me a lot of trouble.

I think the important thing to see here, is the fact that tension is brought up over and over again. I personally believe that you could have the best pick manipulation skills and still never pick the lock because you're misjudging the amount of tension you're using.

I have, for the most part, come to pick American 5200s pretty consistantly, but there are still the onesies and twosies out there that i'll still come across that I can't pick. And after reviewing why i couldn't pick them, it comes down to tension. Always too much tension.

Regardless if you SPP or Rake a lock, if you can't control your tension, your efforts aren't going to get you anywhere.