Trouble with my tubular "decoder"

[Shark500]

I've run into a little snag with my tubular lock pick [southord 7pin].

after i get the proper pin combo i try to tighten the collar but no matter how tightly i turn the collar, the feelers are still able to move.

I'm not saying it doesn't get tight, but it doesn't get tight enough to prevent the feelers from moving during use.

all o-rings are in place and it's not worn from overuse as i have received it very recently and it is brand new.

Any advice is appreciated.

[Legacy712]

I have the same pick, and the same complaint. I've filed and sanded the collar threads to make it easier to crank down on it, even tried different o-rings. Nothing seems to work. I guess we just have to settle for a snug fit.

[Shark500]

yeah.. it's peculiar because it worked fine for the first few days of use but seems to have gone limp...

any way i'm looking into it.

maybe needs better o-rings?

[Shark500]

FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE TO BE NOTED:

The aluminum collar that has the hex screw that affixes it to the barrel uses pressure to hold it in place. this also creates pressure on the opposite side of the barrel freezing the pin on the opposite side of the screw.

Now because it is located in one of the furrows you'd expect that it wouldn't rub against the collar but it simply isn't the case.

In order to stop the varying of tension on all of the pins and keep things as uniform as possible you must keep the collar just loose enough to allow for a slight movement.

This movement will allow for the shifting of pins out of placement and mucking things up a whole lot.

This, in addition to the "snugness" issue, make the need for revision imminent!

But in the interim, it is an effective tool and I plan on using it until it falls to pieces and is pried from my cold dead hands.

Any tips on improving it's performance will be greatly received.

[nostromo]

When the nylon rings under the collar of my 30 year old A-1 7 pin tubular pick became flattened after awhile. Removing the rings and collar and wrapping a rubber band around the shaft pick where the collar was has worked out ok. Might that work for you?

Sure, the rubber bands will need replacing soon, but it's not expensive!

[Legacy712]

The SouthOrd pick has 2 rubber (neoprene?) o-rings under the collar, not nylon. When the o-rings wear out, they can be easily replaced. In fact, there is a kit for this, although I believe it would take a lot of picking to cause sufficient wear to occur. They can also be replaced with the right sized plumber's o-rings.

I have a few modifications in mind, but need the time to try them. I've already -slightly- filed the sides of the tips of the feelers (picks), to make them a little more rounded so they don't rub against the lock housing when inserted. Don't know if it works better, but it hasn't hurt it. I also want to slightly rework the collar and the tube under the o-rings, as well as the plunger which exerts pressure on the o-rings. I just have to find the time.

[nostromo]

Rounding the feeler edges sounds like a great idea. What did you have in mind for the collar? I used to put a teeny-weeny-eeny bit of vaseline on the Orings to help them slide smoother, but that may have been in the realm of a mgic ritual. I've never been able to pick an Ace lock quickly. And it looks like it should be so easy to feel the pins when they hit the shear line. How do YOU tell when they are where they need to be?

[Legacy712]

I would avoid -any- lubricant on the o-rings themselves, as it would make it near impossible to exert enough drag on the feelers. I did try putting a very little bit of silicone grease on the collar threads, to help with tightening the collar. However, I don't think it did any good, so don't bother.

One of the first things I did was to -very- slightly file the sides of the little tube inside the main tube, the one which fits into the slot of the lock plug. I found it was a little too tight with some newer locks, and it was dragging as I'd push and pull the pick in a lock. I used a very small file, and filed both sides slightly, checked it in the lock, then repeated, if necessary, little by little. You must be very careful, however, to not file off too much that you weaken or break the wall of the little tube.

I also used a very small file which is very pointed on the side, to gently run it through the collar threads, as well as gently sanding the threads with a 400 grit wet-or-dry sand paper. This made the tightening much smoother, as the collar threads have some small burrs on them. You can't do much for the larger collar (the part you turn), but you can treat the smaller collar (with the hex screw) whose threads are accessible.

Keep in mind that, with the feeler ends, I only rounded the -sides- of the tips. The ends of the tips must remain straight, as they contact the pins of the lock. Just slightly round the sides of the tips so they conform to the roundness of the tube they slide in. And only round them for around 1/4" of the end.

Now, what I'm considering...

I'm thinking of dismantling the pick, then slightly sanding the tube right under the o-rings, so the o-rings can contact the feelers better to exert more pressure. However, it -must- be only where the o-rings sit, no more than that. The tube where the collar actually attaches with the hex screw -must- remain as it is. Under the o-rings, however, I'm thinking of sanding the tube -slightly- smaller. The feelers sit in the grooves, slightly below the surface of the tube. I want to make it so the feelers are even with the surface of the tube, or slightly higher, so they rub against the o-rings better.

I'd also like to file very slight notches in the collar (in line with the screw part) where the feelers sit, especially the 3 feelers on the opposite side of the screw. This would prevent the collar from contacting the feelers if the hex screw is tightened. I'd also like to somehow slide some -very- thin shims under the collar, between the collar and the tube, where the screw is, but -between- the 3 feelers opposite the screw. This way, the screw could be tightened, yet the collar would remain equidistant from the tube all around. Otherwise, when the screw is tightened, the collar would be further away from the tube on the screw side than it is on the opposite side, because the screw would cause the collar to pull away from the tube. The collar must stay equidistant from the tube so that the o-rings tighten uniformly against all of the feelers. I think if the collar could be tightened so it doesn't slide at all, it would be better, because when the collar slides, so do the o-rings inside, and possibly the feelers.

I'm also considering reworking the plunger which tightens against the o-rings. I'm thinking that if, instead of being flat against the o-rings, it might be better if the inside of the flat side was ground to an angle. This way, when it's tightened against the o-rings, it would tend to tighten on the outside first, pushing the o-rings more against the tube and feelers. I'm not sure if it would produce the desired results, though, and I'm still noodling it. However, the plunger seems to have plenty of room left after compression, so if it didn't work, I could always file it flat again, and the plunger would just be a little shorter, yet still have plenty of room to work. At worst, I could also put in a third o-ring to take up some space.

Anyway, those are some of the modifications I'm considering.

[Legacy712]

By the way, if you're having trouble using the pick, there are some excellent videos of guys demonstrating their techniques on YouTube.

I've found that I can sometimes open an Ace lock in 3 or 4 seconds, while at other times it takes a minute or two. You have to practice. You can go to a local locksmith and buy a new lock for around $15. Maybe he'll even have some cheap used ones sitting around.

And when you do pick it, turn it around 20 degrees (halfway to the next pin), pull out the pick, reset it, tighten the collar a -lot-, then push the pick all the way in and lock the collar. You should then be able to "read" the pick's feelers. However, after you reinsert the pick, turn the lock back to the "zero" position, just in case you screwed up and can't pick it again. Then, at least you can use the key. Get a lock and keep practicing. It's actually (usually) pretty easy.

[Shark500]

yeah I've been having a problem with the notch pin as well. i tried pinching it thinner with pliers but it's fairly strong. I'll try filling it down a little.

also i suggest you superglue the handle onto it for a better hold.

when inserting into locks with tighter notches it's near impossible to get the right movement and i pulled the handle off of the pick trying to remove it.

[Legacy712]

Again, however, file both sides of the notch tube -very- carefully, and only a little bit at a time, trying it in the lock each time. Don't just file one side, and hold the file such that it files the entire length of the tube. You'd have trouble if you break through the side of the tube. Just hold the file against the entire length of the tube, press it against the tube firmly, and pull it out. It doesn't have to be filed much. By pinching it with a pliers, it probably did nothing, except perhaps leave roughened sides from the knurled pliers.

[Engineer]

My problem is that they didn't slide very easily in mine.

What I've done to get mine to glide properly in their channels is todisassemble it and dip each pin in metal polish (yes, Brasso) and just slide it up and down a few times by hand until the roughness has worn off a bit.

You do need to clean the pins and channels throughly after with something parrafin/kerosene. You don't want any traces of the very fine abrasive compound in the polish left behind, or as you use it, it will get too loose.

I don't feel it needs any lubrication afterwards as you can get them to glide like silk, you just have to be careful not to overdo it.

[Bump]

Why is it that the Southord need to be filed/sanded/messed about with at all. Buy the HPC and get a pick that works out of the box.

[Engineer]

Perfectly valid point Bump!

Basically I didn't know HPC were any better when I got them. Having said that, I did get them for a good price, so would probably have been tempted into buying them any.

The reason is that over the years, I have got used to refinishing all the tools I buy. Not just locky stuff, but engineering tools all seem to come with the bare minimum of finishing done to them, unless you are buying the very best brands.

I'm always "putting the final polish" on tools anyway, so improving the feel of these wasn't really a problem for me anyway - And it did save me some cash. I just thought it might help others who find themselves in the same position, to know how I made my mine run to just exactly how I wanted it, so it is ideal for me.

[Legacy712]

I've had both the original HPC and the SouthOrd, and I don't know if either one needed "finishing" more than the other. I bought my HPC around 40 years ago, and settled for it the way it was at that time. More recently, I bought a SouthOrd, and wanted it to be even better than it was, as I'm more exacting than I was back then. I wanted the feelers to glide through the channels, so I smoothed the channels and feelers to remove any artifacts left from the machining process and worked the feelers back and forth until they were ultra-smooth. I also buffed the feelers a bit. And I reworked the collar a little, to make it tighten more smoothly.

Did the SouthOrd work as well or better than the HPC, right out of the box? I think it did. Does it work a little better than that after what I've done with it? I think so. But my HPC didn't have a compression collar and o-rings. It had a rubber band around the feelers, which their standard model still has. However, their newer models have a collar, and may benefit from the same reworking as the SouthOrd.

As Engineer pointed out, many small tools can often benefit from a little reworking, as they seem the have the minimum finishing done to them.