Best Alloy For Lock Picks

[Schuyler]

Woah! 3 year dead thread rises from the grave. I wouldn't worry about talking to the OP anymore, but it's definitely a good one to have resurrected. I've actually been about to ask for this info for a while as I'm having some picks produced. Thanks for pulling it from the grave, nerd.

[rontgens]

Woah! 3 year dead thread rises from the grave. I wouldn't worry about talking to the OP anymore, but it's definitely a good one to have resurrected. I've actually been about to ask for this info for a while as I'm having some picks produced. Thanks for pulling it from the grave, nerd.

Are these the picks that you mentioned on a blog that you might be selling to the public?
What are the designs like or are they yet to be unvieled so to speak...
I wish you all the luck in the world with them I'm sure they'll be a huge success
p.s where do you get those double ended Toool picks that look like Falle picks from?

[Schuyler]

at HOPE - another one coming up this July in NYC. TOOOL always makes up a special set of double ended picks to sell there. Hope #6's were the best in my opinion. Beautiful metal and cut on a waterjet so the finishing was perfect.

And yes, the picks will eventually be sold, but I've had some of my funding drop out. If no progress is made by summer I'll probably just release all of the designs. I have test pieces in, they work well and look nice, but unless my friends/business partners step in with the money it might be dead in the water. We'll see. The big differences from normal sets are the more organic handle designs, roll up fabric cases instead of zippered leather, and in the picks, the significant ones are a completely redesigned L rake that is a bit longer and a more aggressive profile. A perfectly matched king & queen and a Large S. Deforests and a deep curve that utilize the undercut that I love on the picks I get made and another deforest diamond with a notch in the tip for better indexing on chiseled pin tips. The full set is 20 pieces, all unique, all with handles and everyone point of every pick was decided by me personally.

I'm pretty proud of them, and I think that no matter what happens with my friends financially I will at least produce a short run of the full sets w/cases, book and training kits.

[Squelchtone]

Titanium is not an alloy

But there are alloys of titanium, that is what i was aiming at. I was going to order the metal off of mastercarr and have it drop shipped to the waterjet place. If you look on master car they have 6? different types of spring steel.

You're over thinking this.... just go buy some picks for $20 and be done with it.. everyone knows the best metal to use for lock picks is Unobtanium.

Squelchtone

[rontgens]

Thanks for the answer Schuyler definately put my name down for a set of those. I'm glad you went for a case without a zipper, they always break it seems.

You should make a thread to talk more about how you made your decisions on a personalised custom pickset.
I want a set that's practical but each piece is like a work of art, perhaps some laser etched logo and design. So I started reading threads about pick cases, alloy types, pick types.
Looking into what materials I like and how durable they are and how long they'll last how practical they'll be.

For pick cases I like leather it adds a rustic charm and ages well if looked after and to keep the picks safe from falling out I think I'd choose velcro.
I also saw these http://www.toystoreinc.com/catalog/indianads.jpgIndiana Jones Nintendo Ds cases that have cord and a brass notch/button to fasten, I thought that's a nice touch.

Anyway enough blabbering...it seems I keep hijacking threads oops.

[stratmando]

Gold is too soft, but gold picks would look nice maybe in a James Bond Movie.
I thought Titanium was Stronger than Steel and Lighter than Aluminum.
I love Titanium, I bought a Titanium Shovel from Ebay thay was Made in Russia.
Some info on Stainless and titanium alloys:
http://www.bodywireco.com/html/alloys.html

[danneva]

[quote="Shrub"]Alloys are as you say a mix of metals, i advise you do not use alloys,

I advise you do not use titanium,

I advise you use stainless steel but some prefer spring steel,

Lock pick tools do not need to be fancy and expensive to be effective. In terms of hardness, stainless steel and titanium are both hard but in corrosion or acid resistance, stainless steel are better than titanium.

[stratmando]

I have had "Stainless steel" rust, never titanium:
http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1336

[ishtob]

Alloys are as you say a mix of metals, i advise you do not use alloys,

I advise you do not use titanium,

I advise you use stainless steel but some prefer spring steel,

sorry new here, but i do a lot of DIY metal-working ranging from building amp casings, custom parts, and pocket knives, none of what shrub said is true. It's hard to avoid alloys, all the metals you named are some short of alloyed iron, as for titanium,

there's alot of grades of titanium, grade 1-4 are pure titanium, grade 5 to 30-40's (i think? new ones keeps poping up) all model after the grade 5 which is high strength and heat treatable, this is achieved through alloying, grade 5 is named Ti6Al4V which is a mix of titanium, aluminum,vanadium, and traces of iron.

pure titanium: softer and less brittle, better corrosive resistance
alloyed titanium:heat treatable medium to high hardness and strength, less corrosive resistance than pure Ti

Lock pick tools do not need to be fancy and expensive to be effective. In terms of hardness, stainless steel and titanium are both hard but in corrosion or acid resistance, stainless steel are better than titanium.

I agree with that, but I personally prefer Ti grade 5 (aka Ti 6-5) since you can basically work with it as if it's steel, annealed state offers relatively good machinability, and when heat treated, can be as strong as steel or stainless. Another advantage is that titanium offers better wear resistance, meaning your hard work of DIY or cash that you paid gets more use out of it before they wear out.

and quick correction, titanium IS more corrosion resistant than stainless steal since titanium forms a layer on the surface that protects it from anything corrosive. (http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ie50521a054 hit next page and read the top paragraph)

anyways, it really comes down to preference, even the strongest titanium will break if you man-handle it since picks are made so thin and small.

here's what I made out of grade 5 titanium. its a work in progress (top piece still need to be sanded and polished)

tools i used:
dremel - cut-off wheel (one made for steel cutting)
files and sand paper

[bobhdus]

I've been making some Raimundo Style Bagoto's (thanks Raimundo!!!)and have been using Tig Welding Rod. If your around a weld shop see if there is some spent welding rod laying around that is Certanium 707 or similar that is used for welding of Stainless or Dissimilar steels. I use different diameters for different types of locks and follow Raimundos instructions posted by him. So far, never had any issues or broke one yet. I go through tension wrenches more than picks. I work in a Plant where there are tool boxes that Management has me open up when up the employees move on (to future career opportunities somewhere else). Most of the time the linkages and or the locks are messed up causing me to have to apply excessive torque. Later!

[C185]

I wonder how some of the higher end knive steels would work when machined as picks? Metals such as fancy stainless steels like CPM S35VN, CPM S30V, VG-10, maybe even the super hard S90V. I even wonder if some of the nice carbon steels A2, CPM3V would outperform these so called "government" steels.

It would be great to see great knife makers like Chris Reeve, Jerry Busse get into the lock pick engineering game.

[MarkMcGrath]

C185 - Most of the metals you have refernced are nothing more then basic 1095, or D2 hardness steels with a little different mix of something. Then the knife maker claims it is some amazing new alloy that resist XX%better then ______. In reality the differnce is generally not that much. Further harder tools are going to be brittle especially when you look at the width of the metal we work with. In reality most of the stuff you pointed at is more proganda knife sales metal then anything truely revolutionary.

[C185]

C185 - Most of the metals you have refernced are nothing more then basic 1095, or D2 hardness steels with a little different mix of something. Then the knife maker claims it is some amazing new alloy that resist XX%better then ______. In reality the differnce is generally not that much. Further harder tools are going to be brittle especially when you look at the width of the metal we work with. In reality most of the stuff you pointed at is more proganda knife sales metal then anything truely revolutionary.

I agree with you that some of the carbon steels that I mentioned are not all that different than properly heat treated D2. I think its a great steel, they make industrial jackhammer bits with D2 Steel! That being said I think that you fail to notice the recent advancements made in the stainless steels, they are approaching the benchmark Carbon steels as far a toughness goes.

Myself and thousands of other people just love to geek out on this stuff, I just think that it would be cool to see lockpicks made out of D2 for instance or some of Crucible Industries newest super stainless steels! I am certain that this could be a interesting marketing strategy for a lock tool company that caters to professionals and enthusiasts alike.

[MarkMcGrath]

It is all fine and good to find the next best thing but a lot of that tends to end up being a fine line of splitting hairs, and improper understanding of metals. If I had a penny for every fool who heard from ______ sexpert on awsome cailber, specific gun, brand of guns was the best because of XYZ I would buy Bill Gates out. The metals a fine, they are a step forward but cost, and versitility are not substantially different to make it worth while. I had a knife maker point it out on rockwell hardness comparisons etc. Currently the only advantage any seem to have ends up being rust resistance, which just means you don't have to care for your equipment as much.... in theory.

[blate]

I have found that the steel used in feeler gauge and shim stock (available in both high-carbon, blue-tempered spring steel and stainless) is good for making picks and other lock-related tools. It's a bit too brittle for tensors, though. You can buy shim stock and bulk feeler gauge stock from places like McMaster-Carr, MSC Industrial, Grainger, or your local metalworking supply house. I recommend Starrett-brand stock; it's a bit more expensive than the alternatives, but is of more-consistently superior quality.

The carbon spring steel is much easier to heat-treat at home... if you have a bit of a heavy hand, you may find your picks work-hardening and eventually breaking in particular spots. Annealing, hardening, and re-tempering the steel can extend the life of picks in this condition. Being able to anneal (soften) the steel also means that you can work it with files and other cutting tools that would otherwise get destroyed by hardened steel. I suggest practicing heat-treating on some scraps before attempting it on a piece you've spent a lot of time crafting. One key is figuring out whether your steel prefers water-, oil-, or air-hardening.

There are a number of great books on the subject, including "Hardening, Tempering, and Heat Treatment" (Tubal Cain, 1984), part of the "Workshop Practice Series" -- most affordability-available from Amazon UK (oddly, even after exchange-rate and shipping, it's still cheaper than Amazon USA). It's short, sweet, and a great intro to this science. There are a number of other fun books in this series for do-it-yourself craftsmen in this series.

I have found that stainless is quite a lot trickier (for me) to heat treat and it tends to be a wee bit more subject to bending (meaning it's tougher=less brittle). On the plus side, it _can_ be bent, which can be useful when constructing, e.g., dimple picks or other gizmos where you want a more 3D shape.

To add to the "alloy" discussion... technically, all steels are a _solution_ of iron and a small amount of carbon. In almost all cases, a variety of alloying metals are added to achieve specific properties. Modern metallurgy is has gotten pretty precise (and complicated), producing an amazing variety of products. Home-brewing lock picks and related tools has been, for me, a fun way to learn more about this subject. One thing that you will find is that it has gotten very hard to find truly high-quality steels in the US. Most of the best tool and knife steels come from Germany, Switzerland, and Japan, where manufacturers apparently still value quality and longevity over cost.

Experiment, have fun, and keep learning and sharing!

Alex