How does Multipick work?

[drv]

But wouldn't that require a heatsink, the size of a fridge ??

[MrB]

But wouldn't that require a heatsink, the size of a fridge ??

No, quite the opposite. A transistor is only dissipating heat when it is passing a current with a voltage drop. If the transistor is fully off, then no current, so no heat. If the transistor is fully on, then no (not much) voltage drop, so again no heat. It is when a transistor is half on that it gets hot, and that is just what you avoid with PWM. On the other hand, if you try to use a transistor like a variable resistor and control motor speed that way...

[drv]

... If the Multipick is hard drive in both directions then the pick will just hammer anything that tries to restrict its movement...

Well, actually that is exactly how it feels when touching a ward
with the Multi-Pick ... Quite often it hurts your hand holding
the device. And sometimes the recoil from such an impact will
even launch you tension wrench yards away !!

[drv]

A transistor is only dissipating heat when it is passing a current with a voltage drop. If the transistor is fully off, then no current, so no heat. If the transistor is fully on, then no (not much) voltage drop, so again no heat.

Aaaah !! Thanks for the very clear info MrB.

I didn't know that.

[Romstar]

A heatsink about the size of a quarter.

You have to realize the voltages and duty cycle you are dealing with here.
It's not that much.

In most cases, 6V or under with the exception of the multipick which has been demonstrated as a more destructive device than any other electric pick on the market.

I've built these things at 4.5V using the 555 timer IC, and to be honest I didn't bother with the heatsink. It just wasn't necessary.

PWM is a good idea, but given the mechanics of what we are dealing with is not necessary either. As a matter of fact, a loss of torque at the needle can be a useful thing.

Bear in mind that the adjustment wheel on a manual pick gun is for exactly that thing. Torque=Force. f=ma

Now, the entire point of this is to actually modify the "beat" or frequency of impact with the pins. Adjusting the torque actually assists in this opperation by making changes in the force and frequency.

One of the more important things to realize about modern high security locks is that in many of them, different springs are used. Additionally, some have additional components such as balls in the pin stacks so as to interfere with the force transferance typical of all pick gun operation.

What this means is simple. You may want to do what is known as a "double tap" on a pin stack so that you can get the ball out of the way, and THEN the driver pin. Also, with different springs, the pick impact can over set some pins, and not set others. This would mean that varrying the torque would change how the pick reacts to springs of differing strengths.

All of these techniques are actually much more valid than the brute force techniques employed by the Multipick. Yes, it is an effective tool. The downside is that the sort term gains (an open lock) can be far out weighed by the long term problems. These include crushed springs, damaged pins, shaved keyways, damaged internals, and general lock failure.

Get some parts and experiment. Using Li-Ion batteries, you can actually get more amperage from a smaller cell. Additionally, you are interested in making the pick WORK at this stage. A housing is a secondary consideration.

Romstar

[drv]

My God ...

Romstar = ... Locksmith, Craftsman, Inventor, Multi-Linguist, Autodidact,
Computer Engineer, Electronics Guru, Pyrotechnician, Rocket Scientist, Brain Surgeon ... ...

[Romstar]

:D

My God ...

Romstar = ... Locksmith, Craftsman, Inventor, Multi-Linguist, Autodidact,
Computer Engineer, Electronics Guru, Pyrotechnician, Rocket Scientist, Brain Surgeon ... ...

Dear lord,
I am not sure how to take that one.

Leave out guru and replace with technician, and most definately leave out brain surgeon. I never liked the idea of operating on anything with the consistancy of peanut butter.

Still, that's quite the compliment.
Thanks,
Romstar

[drv]

[PickPick]

Just got the reply from the designer, the box uses PWM.

Btw, Romstar, brain surgery is not such a big deal, you just need to make sure to use only the lower speed settings on the Dremel

[drv]

Wouldn't your friend be able to supply some schematics perhaps ?

[MPC_Developer]

At first: I´m sorry, but I can not give out any schematics.
I sold the idea to the owner of multipick-service.com
That´s business.

It´s very interesting to watch people, trying to find out, how something could work. - Normally I have the problem...

I have not invent the Multipick itself, just the Controller-Device.
But I can promise you, that the needle moves in both directions. With the same power.
I opened the mechanic once. There is no spring. But that I knew before.
It´s a special motor. Just made for the MP. It have a special axis.
If you want to know, how the mechanic works look into the german patent office.
There you will find an bad quality picture of the first version.
But you can understand what the basic idea was.

The MP is the only e-pick without a spring, that I know.
That is the reason, why I build the controller for that pick.
A normal spring-epick would have an own resonance freq.

But my main idea was to bring the tumble in resonance freq. so that the space between the the tumble rise to maximum.
You can get the same moment by just switching on and off, but you will need a lot of training.
And more >trys<.

By the way, I know the MP-system just with seales lead-acid batterys.

That you should use an PWM for 60W, you learn on every technical university. So that is no secret.
Oh, and - I´m surprised, too- I don´t even need a heatsink.

Now, the NE555. Hm. Do somebody tried to generate a slow signal under 1 Hz ?
If I red the manuels right, you would need a very, very big C for that.
The second problem would be, running the 555 on 28 Volt (fresh loaded batterys).
(But you can generate a saw-profil for the PWM if you wish to.)

I use the MP for very >tide< locks. If you have a normal lock, you should use a longer needle-holder to bring the MP to a normal epick like WENDT, Köster, HPC, Southord ?

[Romstar]

Oh for the love of Pete.

Give me some time, and I will get the schematic, diagrams, and possibly some pictures up here.

If I get really lucky, and I am not promising on this one, but if I get really lucky I will get some video of my pick in use.

That should solve the entire debate about the guns, the 555 timer, and how to build one of these things.

I've used sealed lead-acid, as well as gel cells and I don't like them. Too much weight, too little return. Ni-Cad, NiMh, Li-Ion, and even alkaline are much better choices in my opinion.

This is my personal opinion of the Multi-Pick. It is essentially a buzz saw masquarading as a lock pick. The potential damage, draw backs, and problems associated with this design are far too many to be considered as anything other than an emergency opening device.

That it does open a huge variety of locks is NOT in question. That has been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt.
What is in question in my opinion is the ability of the pick to do it's job in a non destructive manner. In that regard it fails, and nothing else need be said on that issue.

Romstar

[drv]

Oh Yes, I can confirm the MP IS destructive ...

After reading these posts, today I took apart my practise lock, which I
have used for training my skills with the MP.

The pins really look like mushroom pins now !!
. . .
Then again, this lock probably got HOURS of MP training coming over it ...

Romstar, if you anyhow manage to duplicate the multi-pick-control box,
let me know ! Would love to get some schematics.

I think it's just too expensive to buy, for what it is.
Rather build it myself.

[MPC_Developer]

@romstar

I wait for the first one who reengineer since the frist unit have left the house.
That´s okay. I make the same, if I want something.
Look, thing, copy.

Ni-Cad are a good choise. But they are much more expensive, too.
NiMh & Li-Ion are not that short-cut resistend.

I think, they wanted lead-acid batterys is because they hold their charge value for a long time.
So if I left your unit a half year in your cupboard, it will still run very well.
Ni-Cad lose their charge in about a month.

Oh, please, what is a buzz saw ?
I always thought, that it works more like these medical saw for sculls.

@drv
We all know, that you could saw a lock in half if you just use it long enough.
Specially if you insert an saw blade

But the problem is that many german locks are so tide, that you now even get in a handpicking-tool.
So the multipick is the only possibility. Sure bump-keys. But who want to make over 200 to 2000 differend key and carry them around ?

[drv]

"MPC_DeveloperOh, please, what is a buzz saw ?

Ein "buzz saw" ist eine sogenannte Kreissäge

Gruße ,

Vince