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Bumping Masterlock Number 3

Tool recommendations, information on your favorite automatic and/or mechanical lockpicking devices for those with less skills, or looking to make their own.

Bumping Masterlock Number 3

Postby houseonfire » 29 Jul 2008 14:42

I bought some bump keys, and just got them in the mail.
I've been trying to bump the Masterlock No. 3, but for whatever reason i cant get it to work... I don't know why. I took pictures of the key, and the lock so maybe someone could help me out.

When bumping, i put the key all the way in, then pull it out one click, I then put a medium amount of tension on the key in the clockwise direction (iv actually tried all different amounts of pressure). I hit it with my homemade hammer and the key just bounces in and the lock does not open.
Is this lock one of those special ones that are "bump proof"?

Image

There are signs on the teeth where you can see the pins had been hit.
Thanks to anyone that helps
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Postby freakparade3 » 29 Jul 2008 14:53

I believe the key needs to be modified a certain way to bump a masterlock. I just don't remember what it is. I think JacknCo is the bearer of this wisdom, maybe he will help.
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Postby houseonfire » 29 Jul 2008 14:56

If I modify it to bump a master lock, will it fit in other locks?
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Postby Trip Doctor » 30 Jul 2008 12:40

I believe the modification is filing a bit off the tip and/or shoulder (depending if it's a tip or shoulder stop key). I THINK that's only if you wanna bump it without actually having to pull it out one click/pin though. The key will fit into every other lock with the same keyway (thats.. most, near all I think, Master locks).
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Postby houseonfire » 30 Jul 2008 13:52

Hmm.
So if i trim down that front "tooth", it will work?
It seemed a little large to me, but i wasn't sure since I'm not an expert.
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Postby Trip Doctor » 31 Jul 2008 1:08

The 'tip' refers to the tip of the key itself. So.. if you were to poke someone with a key.. you'd poke them with the tip.... :? :P

If you're pulling it out one click, it seems like making the last peak smaller might result in more success, but I can't really tell you for sure. I tried bumping before, and, personally, didn't have a whole lot of success. Theres the occasional open, but that's about it.
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Postby houseonfire » 31 Jul 2008 19:53

Yeah.. My friend got it open ONCE, and he can't seem to do it again. And I can't even do it the once.
I'll trim it down a little and post my success.
Thanks.
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Postby nostromo » 11 Aug 2008 17:38

A <gentle> suggestion-

If you're going to spend a decent amount of time and money, have you consdered a pick set and studying the LP101 forums? Bump keys need one key for each keyway and a special 'hammer', a simple pick set is smaller than a ring of bump keys and gives you a decent shot at quite a few locks.

Or even better, get a chainsaw file and some wiper blade inserts and start making your own for cheap?

Just a thought . . .
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Postby BarryWells » 18 Aug 2008 16:05

nostromo wrote:A <gentle> suggestion-

If you're going to spend a decent amount of time and money, have you consdered a pick set and studying the LP101 forums? Bump keys need one key for each keyway and a special 'hammer', a simple pick set is smaller than a ring of bump keys and gives you a decent shot at quite a few locks.

Or even better, get a chainsaw file and some wiper blade inserts and start making your own for cheap?

Just a thought . . .


I agree with you wholeheartedly,the bump key method is a brilliant way of opening a lock but requires no skill whatsoever,picking on the other hand is a different game all together.
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Postby aka.decoy » 31 Aug 2008 5:01

I apologize in advance, I have a feeling this may get a little lengthy.

If you have figured it out or found your answer elsewhere, congratulations! If not, here are a few things I've observed in my experience. I do encourage NDE by picking, but there's nothing wrong with learning any and all other techniques in my humble opinion. If anyone notices something I am completely incorrect about, please feel free to point it out. Thanks. :wink:

Hope you don't mind, I used your picture to reference so it'd be easier to understand.

The areas of modifications on the tip and shoulder previously discussed are highlighted in YELLOW (fig 1).

When you file down the tip and shoulder, you will be "bumping" with the key fully inserted. CAUTION: filing the tip & shoulder too much will allow the key to travel too far. Making a copy prior to filing is recommended. Approximately between 0.25 and 0.5 mm (.010-.020" or 1/64-1/32") Usually works, but feel free to experiment. When testing if you have filed off enough, push the key in all the way to the shoulder. When you let go, if you can see/feel the springs push the key back out, that's usually enough. If you push it in and it stays there, you have probably gone too far.

*NOTE* Sometimes with a master padlock, your key will feel stuck and you think you've filed too far. Or, it doesn't seem to go in enough, and you will file more off than you have to. This is usually due to the head of the key getting stuck, shown in BLUE (fig 1).
Image
With this method the pins will contact the key on the RED (fig 1) areas as shown. To find the correct amount of tension when bumping, you have to listen/feel the pins. Place light tension on the key and strike it (one time only). Release tension and listen/feel. (Ideally when you let go of the key the pins should reset automatically without you having to turn the key back.) If you can hear pins resetting, good. Try it again. Keep striking/resetting until you have a feel for the amount of tension you need to set some pins.

I find that particular amount of tension is a good starting point for many locks that I have bumped, but that's just my opinion. Once you have a feel for that tension, instead of resetting, try to maintain it for the next few strikes. Occasionally on a stubborn lock I will use the pull back method in conjunction with this one. Also, occasionally you can successfully bump a lock and not even know it. I was practicing on a kwikset lock with a homemade bump key, and just couldn't get it to work. Out of frustration I began to take the key out to take a break . . . and it turned! Here's more on that and the "pull-back" method . . .

When using the pull-back method, I'm sure you know you pull back one click and the pins will contact the key on the red (fig 2) areas as shown. For the most part, that larger "bump" on the front of the key shouldn't be a problem, but if the last pin (or any of them for that matter) sets at the lowest point, you can see why the pull-back method may have a problem. In figure 1, the pins will only travel approx. the height of the lowest possible set (shown in green). Whereas in figure 2 the distance travelled may push the pin(s) higher than the point at which they are supposed to set. You can file down the front bump and/or the rest of the grooves deeper to combat the low-set pin, but make a copy first! You risk ruining your bump key.

As far as the kwikset key, I can honestly only speculate. But I believe that I had filed the shoulder & tip too far. Even though the lock was successfully bumped, because the key was in too far it was pushing the bottom pins up, preventing it from rotating. Pulling the key back allowed the bottom pins to drop off their contact points (fig 1, in red) and turn the cylinder.

Hope this helps. Let me know if anything was unclear or confusing.

Good Luck,

M
"When two people in business always agree, one of them is unnecessary." -- William Wrigley Jr.
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Re: Bumping Masterlock Number 3

Postby Squelchtone » 31 Aug 2008 10:43

houseonfire wrote:When bumping, i put the key all the way in, then pull it out one click, I then put a medium amount of tension on the key in the clockwise direction (iv actually tried all different amounts of pressure)



aka.decoy just replied to you with a good explanation, but there's one thing that people have not told you yet. you're doing it wrong. DO NOT Pre-apply tension in any way until you actually hit the key. if you apply tension, even your medium amount you're already binding the pins and not allowing them to freely move up and down in each pin stack.

The issue is timing. you certainly want to hold the key's edges when it is inserted into the lock, and the second you give it a good hard hit, then apply tension/rotational force on the key.

Check out my video of bumpin a euro-profile EVVA brand lock. You can see that I'm pretty much resting my finger on the key, not really having to press very hard at all at the moment of impact, the weight of my finger is enough to do the job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip80LrD77XA

good luck, lets us know how it goes,

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