How does Multipick work?

by **L_O_C_K_E_D** » 28 Sep 2004 16:24

Does anyone know how the multipick-system woks exactly? I`ve searched within the forum, but nobody has ever really explained.

How can vibration move pins without (or very little) force? IÂ´ve seen their video on www.multipick-service.com but canÂ´t figure it out. Maybe there has to be resonance in frequency between lock and vibrating needle...?
Any experiences?

by **Kung** » 28 Sep 2004 18:38

it looks the same as an electric pick gun just more fancy.

by **Romstar** » 29 Sep 2004 16:50

I don't know how many times I have to explain this, so I will do it one more time.

The multi-pick is a timed puls electric pick gun. That all! Nothing more, nothing special, and certainly not worth the price.

I can't be sure if THEY are using a 555 timer, but you will get the exact same results if you use a 556 dual timer IC, a bunch of resistors, capacitors and some switches. You can get fancy, and do up an EPROM controller with some memory, and presets even a menu driven control. All this depends on your ability to work with electronics really.

If you just want something basic, get the data sheet for the 555 timer and 556 dual timer ICs. Figure out how to adjust the timing with the capacitors, resistors and switches and wire it up between the batteries and the motor in the pick.

Same thing, and a heck of a lot cheaper.

Romstar

by **L_O_C_K_E_D** » 30 Sep 2004 5:02

@Romstar

Thank you! But I've already read your information. I'm familiar with NE555 and other timers and maybe I'll try out... But the real question remains: how does it work? why should a very fast bouncing needle force the pins to bind?
You know how real lockpickers are, we want to find the secret behind it ;-)

by **alias** » 30 Sep 2004 5:34

The pick gun (as well as 999 or 'bump' keys (and sawtooth rakes for that matter)) are designed to work as a result of Newton's 3rd Law of momentum - that for every reaction there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Picture one of those desk toys that dentists and doctors always seem to have with the 5 steel balls suspended in a row from strings and when you release one ball, the three in the middle stay still and the ball on the other side flies up. Imagine the ball that you pickup as the needle of your pickgun, the three balls in the middle are the key pin and the ball that flies up on the other side is the driver pin.

The electric pickgun essentially bounces the key pins to force the driver pins up above the shearline (while the key pins remain below) and as you apply light tension to the plug, the driver pin falls back down and remains trapped at the shearline. The electric pickgun has the 'advantage' over manual guns and bump keys in that it bounces the pins so many more times that you increase your chances of bouncing all the pins above the shearline and keeping them trapped.

I've never actually used one so I can't comment but I'd imagine that they'd make picking mastered pin stacks a breeze but the more restricted the keyway, the less chance you'd have of success.

by **L_O_C_K_E_D** » 30 Sep 2004 5:45

@alias

You are right, but only when it comes to normal electric pickguns. I have have a gun from Wendt Germany and it works exectly as you described. It has a very strong motor and the needle bounces 0.5" at the end. The needle of the Multipick does not even move 0.1" and has (as far as I know) no power at all. That's the reason why this sytem never destroys locks. (as my e-gun does, believe me...) There must be another way...

by **alias** » 30 Sep 2004 6:15

It's still the same principle at work. Presumably the reduced travel of the blade is made up for with increased frequency of vibration and this is what saves your springs. I'd be guessing that "the right angle of attack" of the blade means you have to lift the pins somewhat in order for the vibration to pass through to the driver pins - a bit more like 'buzzing' them above the shearline than 'slamming' them.

This is all speculation but I really can't see that its any different to a standard electric pickgun. Like Romstar says, the Multipick just has more bells and whistles...

by **PickPick** » 30 Sep 2004 7:50

Locked, did you ever see a Multipick in real life? Or did you ever see pictures of the forensic examination of a multipicked lock? It's really heavy on the lock as the Multipick's motor is far stronger than a normal electric pickgun. After you're done with the lock the keyway is much smoother, sometimes the pins aren't really pointed anymore but rounded off and I've seen the shape of the keyway scratched into the back of the lock. I don't own one but when I tried one once, the needle snapped in two because it got stuck in a restrictive keyway.

What sets the Multipick apart from other pickguns is it's power, the short way the needle travels and the high frequency. The controller unit to vary the frequency is sold seperately but from what I've heard, it's really necessary as for many cheaper locks like Abus for example, the frequency is just too high because their springs are not good enough.

by **Romstar** » 30 Sep 2004 8:17

The reason why the multi-pick seems to move so little is actually quite simple.

As you increase force, and frequency, mechanical deflection is actually reduced. This is similar in some ways to throwing a punch.

If for example, you wished to transfer a great deal of energy into an object, (or in the case of punching, most likely a person) you would "pull" the punch. This has the effect of transfering the energy, without transfering all the momentum.

The other style of puch of course is the "follow through", where both the energy and the momentum are transfered. This has a different style impact and is meant to push your opponent as well as transfer kenetic energy.

In a standard pick gun, the transfer of energy is affected because the picking needle continues along its travel, and can cause the bottom pins to rise past the shear line.

The multi-pick is designed to keep that travel short, and transfer as much of that energy into the pins, thus lifting the driver pins while leaving the bottom pins relatively in place.
This is acomplished by increasing the speed and frequency of the motor so that the travel of the needle is interupted by the very next revolution of the motor.

The drawback to this technique is simple enough to see. The pick sounds like a buzz saw, causes immense damage to the pins, and the needle works almost like an electric engraver. This causes damage to the keyway wards, and also in some cases etches the image of the keyway into the back of the lock.

There are a variety of designs for pick guns, but almost all of them work on the same principle. The differences are in how that energy is transfered into the pins.

Romstar

by **mbell** » 30 Sep 2004 8:33

Could the Multipick smooth off enough of the bottom of the pins to make the key not work in the lock anymore?

by **scrapheap** » 30 Sep 2004 9:43

Reading the destructive nature of the multipick has given me an idea. If a device was made that would enable the locksmith to effectivly file away the majority every pin in the lock then the small parts that are left could be pushed above the shear line to open the lock.

It would be a destructive method but could be usefull in a few minor situations where the lock will be replaced anyway.

by **Romstar** » 30 Sep 2004 10:22

Yeah.
Stick a miniature reciprocation saw in there, and just hack away at the thing.

Could work I suppose.
Romstar

by **hzatorsk** » 30 Sep 2004 13:18

Blah!!! 555/556 Timers.... you younguns really scare me with all that silicon crap. Back in my days... it was a tank circuit. We wound our own coils and layered our own condenser plates. Just add a little straight current and we could trigger earthquakes.

Times have changed.

by **PickPick** » 30 Sep 2004 14:38

mbell wrote:Could the Multipick smooth off enough of the bottom of the pins to make the key not work in the lock anymore?

As far as I know this can happen even with normal electropicks and considering the increased power I'm sure the Multipick could cause such problems. But you'd need to use it several minutes I guess.

by **Romstar** » 30 Sep 2004 22:35

hzatorsk wrote:Blah!!! 555/556 Timers.... you younguns really scare me with all that silicon crap. Back in my days... it was a tank circuit. We wound our own coils and layered our own condenser plates. Just add a little straight current and we could trigger earthquakes.

Times have changed.

Yep, times they have been changing. Look, if you wanna try making this with vac tubes, I'd be happy to help you. I even have some miniature "low power" ones that should do the trick. Should be able to power the timer off a seperate 2 cell pack.
I'd say a basic oscillator would do the trick. There is no reason why we can't build an astable timer from a tube.
Coils are easy, we could use a standard stacked condenser pack to regulate the timing discharge. If you like, we could build the relay, but given the cheapness of the things, we might as well buy it.
Given the parts, the battery, and some other considerations we will need that project box after all. Lets use metal, just in case one of the tubes overheats. :wink:

Romstar

How does Multipick work?

How does Multipick work?

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