Newbie first pick!

[beardyweirdy]

I can't keep this to myself...

I've just been successfully picking a few padlocks I had lying around. I've skim-read the MIT guide and watched various videos on the techniques of picking/raking/stabbing/poking/praying... I've read many of the posts here, and the FAQ...

But what I don't get is why can't I seem to positive about locating a pin? Sure, I fish around, but I'm not precise. I can feel the back of the padlock, and then try to move forward towards the tension wrench. Then I seem to hop back and forward trying to feel really carefully for a pin. I even practice pushing the front pin down without a tension wrench just to get the feel for the things.

But it's only the front one I am confident about depressing. The rest are there, I know, but where?!

One more thing about the tension wrench. I have a 9-piece Southord kit. The two wrenches differ in size, width of the head and the length. On some of the locks I have been trying to pick the wrench slips in the aperture. This was particularly noticeable on an Abus cylinder lock from my old front door. The wrench would slip giving the appearance that I had been successful - but I hadn't. Should organise a wider range of wrenches to cope with the different size keyway openings?

I know it's bad form to post more than query in a post at a time, but (you just know I'm going to do it, don't you?), I've read about taking out most of the pins in a lock and practising on the one or two left. Is this done by drilling the others out?

Many thanks for your observations. Oh, and I swear I am using every tension from the absurdly featherlight through to what I think to be about a pound in weight. Sometimes I vary this pressure, and where on the wrench I exert it.

Respect to to the experts here, this is a fine hobby and site to match.

BeardyWeirdy

[beardyweirdy]

I should have said that I can't feel anything distinctive, or hear much either for the matter.

[funboy79015]

But what I don't get is why can't I seem to positive about locating a pin?

Locating the individual pins (in my experience) requires practice and visualizing the the interior of the lock. Try slowly and lightly moving your pick straight into the keyway along the top of the pins. As the pick moves across each pin the vertical force on the pick will vary a small amount. the points where the vertical force is greatest will be the center of each pin. The change in the vertical force is very small. While you do that, visualize where you think the pins should be located.

That is how I locate the pins in a lock

Should organise a wider range of wrenches to cope with the different size keyway openings?

I would say, if your wrench doesn't fit a particular keyway then you probably need a different size wrench.

I've read about taking out most of the pins in a lock and practising on the one or two left. Is this done by drilling the others out?

Generally, no. If you drill the pins out of a lock then you can't easily add pins to the lock as your skills improve. Get a lock that can be disassembled. Take it apart. When you reassemble it leave all but a couple of pin stacks out of the lock.

[Chucklz]

Tensionwise, anything more than about 2 or 3 ounces on the end of a 5 inch tension tool is many times too much tension for most locks.

[beardyweirdy]

Chucklz: noted the weight of pressure required.

Funboy: this lock that can be dis-assembled - is that known as a training lock? I have seen them advertised. I've never seen a cylinder lock that can be 'played' with to the extent you mention - but then I am pretty new here.

Thanks for replies. I go about this more softly than hard. I did put the pick in the lock to its maximum on the outside of the lock (s) and then mark with my thumb the length of the pick before putting it back in the keyway, to get an idea of how far in each pin might be. Hope it's clear what I mean by that.

I will also try to create my own tensioners. I did this a few days ago with some allen keys (hex in US?), but they too were a poor fit and 'jumped' at the wrong time (like there's a 'right' time), perhaps that in itself is indicative of too much pressure on the wrench.

Such a 'simple' operation is not so simple after all! No short cut to experience...

Bye now.

[funboy79015]

I wasn't thinking about a training lock, though they would probably work. I was thinking more along the lines of any lock that can be rekeyed. I don't know much about the lock you have in the UK. Perhaps someone from there could suggest brands of locks for you.

[Chucklz]

In general, you are looking for either a rim cylinder or mortice cylinder or a pin tumbler deadbolt. Best of luck.

[LittlePeaceful]

About the pin localization:
in the beginning when I experienced the same problem I was used, using the key bits as a reference, to mark with an permanent marker on the side of the pick one line for each pin depth, after a while the marks where scratched away but meanwhile I got a general idea about what pin I was working on.
Later my feeling capabilities increased I didn't need to use the trick anymore.

About the slipping wrenches, you can try at least two ways to handle the problem:
1. try different ways to fit the wrench in the keyway: in the beginning I could just use the wrench sticked deep into the opposite part of the keyway compared to the pins position, lately I almost always place the wrench in the short warding in front of the first pin, leaving more space for the pick on the other side (usually to do this you need a short tipped wrench);
2. home made your new wrenches, you'll find lots of references searching this side about materials, shapes and size. Personally I use bycycle spokes and small size hacksaw blades. By the last advices posted around the forum it appears that wiper blades are really good, see: viewtopic.php?t=2465

Hope can help ...

[raimundo]

take your pick, half diamond or hook, and sand the edge smooth with some fine grit sandpaper, you do not want to feel the roughness of the tool, and it will slip in better and it will not come out of the lock with brass filings on it. also sand the edges of the tensor (they're not wrenches any more) the reason to sand the edges of the tensor is because the sharp edges will cut into the brass of the cylinder wall and drive the force into the brass while not actually putting much real torque on the lock core. In a practice lock, sometimes this will erode a grove that holds the tensor making it harder to pick the more you practice. So a smooth edge on the tensor when placed at the bottom of the keyway is necessary. For Littlepeaceful, who uses his tensor at the top of the keyway, it might be ok to bite into the metal a bit, as long as the metal is not the first pin. You can sand the edge of the pick crossways with a four inch square of sandpaper wrapped around a wooden chopstick, but after sanding across, be sure to sand the length of the edge by holding the sand stick and pusing the tool across it so that the toolmarks are along, not across the tool, (even fine sandpaper leaves tool marks) you should also sand the edges round along the shaft and the tip of the pick, sharp square edges add nothing to the feel of the pick and they can complicate it. Another thing that you can do to your tensor is put a slight bend in the blade, so that it grips both sides of the keyway, but not the wall of the cylinder at the bottom of the keyway. Do not sand your tools with any sort of electric motor, such as putting the chopstick in the chuck of a drill and holding the paper on it with rubber bands, this is too agressive and you will probably cause one place to become eroded more than the smooth and even sanding that you can achieve by hand.

[toomush2drink]

Any of the locks mentioned in this thread are a good starting point especially the bird.http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=1543

All can be taken apart to remove the pins and build up your picking skills. Not really known as training locks its just the way they are built as standard.
Beware as sometimes a new lock can be a bit trickier than something that has been used a bit. I have an era which should be really easy to pick but i can only open this barrel with a pick gun yet i can open yales which have spool pins in them. This the crazy world of locks, sometimes they can really make you look stupid.

[lockpicker_pro]

I have learned pin-counting like this:

1. Take a normal hook (or feeler), no tension, and insert it on the highest possible position into the keyway, until you touch the first pin.

2. While holding continuous touch, move down on the pin until you feel the pick sliding onto the rounded tip.

3. Push it up to maximum, don't lower the pick and move on to the second pin, until you touch.

4. Continue with step 2.

While picking, you should try to get always one finger of the picking hand on the frontside of the lock, so you have a better control of how deep you are with your pick.

"may your locks drop open"

greez, lpp

[reg]

Let me add another way of counting pins:

use the backside of a half diamond put the pick in all the way, push all the pins in, keep the pressure of the pick up while slowly pulling it out. Count the clicks of the pins going back to their original space.

This is a sound to know - when you pick a lock and a pin is in it's correct position the click sounds different. If you ever hear the counting click, you know a pin was falsely set (too deep) and sprung back in it's original position.

HTH,

reg