What is the difference between these Ruko-cylinders?

[hpgjg]

I've just got two new locks with Ruko-cylinders.

They are both coded for the same key, but as you can see they are quite different from each other.

Does anyone know the difference between the two Ruko-cylinders? (is one more secure?)



Thanks!

[Squelchtone]

Hi, Welcome to the forum!

Nice ASSA Ruko's, those are very cool padlocks.

I would research "sectional keyway" which is what I think you have there. Your cylinders are probably part of a system where some keys fit into all locks, and some keys only fit into some locks.

Check this article out: http://www.door-hardware-genius.com/?p=365

Here is a diagram showing what I mean:

Here is a Schlage sectional keyway chart from that article:
http://www.door-hardware-genius.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Schlage_keyways.jpg

Squelchtone

[fgarci03]

Hey Squelchtone!

Tell me something, I am thinking that this is a system with the same objective as master keying, but using the wards on the keyway to restrict who is allowed in. I mean, the ones with the "thinner"key profile well open any of the locks, the ones with the "fattest" profile will only open a couple of them. So everyone has the same encoding in the key but they can only open some locks with the same code.

An I saying a whole lot of rubbish?

Thank you for sharing these hpgig!

Be safe!

[hpgjg]

Thanks Squelchtone,

Yes, the key is part of a system. I have tried keys from two other apartments in the same building, they both fit the right lock but not in the left. (but they can't turn and open the lock).

It would appears the locksmith just used a more general keyway in the right lock.

Is it something I should be concerned about? Would it be easier to bump or pick the right lock?

[fgarci03]

Is it something I should be concerned about? Would it be easier to bump or pick the right lock?

What do you mean "be concerned about"?
Easier how so?

Do you want to learn lockpicking or you want an easy way to pop them opened?
That's a tricky question


The wider the keyway is, the easier it gets when picking, because you have more space to move around your picks.
As for bumping, first you need to have a key that fits the lock exactly (the same keyway).

Do you have pics of the keys for those locks? I'd like to see the differences between them if it's possible for you to take a close shot at them!


Be safe!

[zeepia]

If the keys are used also as apartment keys, I don´t want to see any close-ups of them unless blurred!

[hpgjg]

Is it something I should be concerned about? Would it be easier to bump or pick the right lock?

What do you mean "be concerned about"?
Easier how so?

Do you want to learn lockpicking or you want an easy way to pop them opened?
That's a tricky question

I want to learn, but safety (of my stuff) was/is my primary concern.

But I think the link Squelchtone provided have some good info.:

In order to use a bump key to open a lock, the key bumper needs to have the right blank. You cannot bump a cylinder with a bump key that has the wrong keyway. It won’t go in. Therefore, having a lock that has a somewhat rare keyway is a very easy and inexpensive way to make unauthorized entry by key bumping difficult.

In other words the right lock has the better security because of a more specific keyway.

hpgjg

[hpgjg]

I am thinking that this is a system with the same objective as master keying, but using the wards on the keyway to restrict who is allowed in. I mean, the ones with the "thinner"key profile well open any of the locks, the ones with the "fattest" profile will only open a couple of them. So everyone has the same encoding in the key but they can only open some locks with the same code.

After looking in to it I don't think the keyway has anything to do with masterkeying. It would be quite easy for someone to find the right blank and use another key as a template for a new key. I think the Ruko 600 series use the masterkeying principles shown in this video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U6rdI_uG2c

hpgjg

[Squelchtone]

Is it something I should be concerned about? Would it be easier to bump or pick the right lock?

What do you mean "be concerned about"?
Easier how so?

Do you want to learn lockpicking or you want an easy way to pop them opened?
That's a tricky question

I want to learn, but safety (of my stuff) was/is my primary concern.

But I think the link Squelchtone provided have some good info.:

In order to use a bump key to open a lock, the key bumper needs to have the right blank. You cannot bump a cylinder with a bump key that has the wrong keyway. It won’t go in. Therefore, having a lock that has a somewhat rare keyway is a very easy and inexpensive way to make unauthorized entry by key bumping difficult.

In other words the right lock has the better security because of a more specific keyway.

hpgjg

I would say the LEFT lock has better security because less key profiles will fit into it, while the RIGHT lock has a large opening for many other sectional keyways to fit. If you have a choice, use the Left cylinder to protect your stuff, as long as you have a key to lock and unlock it.

BR
Squelchtone

[hpgjg]

In other words the right lock has the better security because of a more specific keyway.

hpgjg

I would say the LEFT lock has better security because less key profiles will fit into it, while the RIGHT lock has a large opening for many other sectional keyways to fit. If you have a choice, use the Left cylinder to protect your stuff, as long as you have a key to lock and unlock it.

BR
Squelchtone

That is what I meant

but thanks for correcting me and for the good link/info.

hpgjg

[fgarci03]

If the keys are used also as apartment keys, I don´t want to see any close-ups of them unless blurred!

Yes, the keys have to be blurred (at least the bittings on them). I'd only like to see the diferences in the keyway!

After looking in to it I don't think the keyway has anything to do with masterkeying.

I wasn't saying it replaces master keying. I just thought it would be an addition to it! But I've never heard about "sectional keyway" before so I'm just assuming

As for bumping, first see if the keyway is common or at least the key blank is easy to get. If it's not, it's not likely to be bumped (may happen, but probably not)!
You can disassemble the lock in order to check if there are additional securities (spool pins, anti-bump pins, etc - I don't really know this locks so I have no clue of what security features they have). Be carefull in disassembling it. If you've never done that before I advise you to use the right lock, so if you can't re-assemble it again, at least you still have the most secure one to lock your stuff

Hope I helped!

Be safe!

[ARF-GEF]

Hi hpgig,
why do you think it has nothing to do with masterkeying? The vast majority of exciting keyways I've seen is part of a masterkey system, so maybe you are just not aware of the higher levels. You said they were new. Did you get them brand new or used-new? (I mean are they never-used-before-new or just new to you?)

Generally it's not a huge security concerns but I would say that if you can (landlord, money etc.) you should get off the masterkey system. (If these locks are part of a masterkey system at all.)
(It has some weaknesses, to mention the most obvious you can never know if there is a master key to your door/padlock out there and if yes who has it.)
If it's only a padlock you use for nothing of great value and the padlocks are out of the factory new it's fine.

And btw. Ruko is quite a nice padlock:)

[hpgjg]

Hi hpgig,
why do you think it has nothing to do with masterkeying? The vast majority of exciting keyways I've seen is part of a masterkey system, so maybe you are just not aware of the higher levels. You said they were new. Did you get them brand new or used-new? (I mean are they never-used-before-new or just new to you?)

They are brand new and the masterkey can fit in one of them but not turn ii/open it.

I was just wondering why the locksmith used different keyways for locks I ordered at the same time.

[ARF-GEF]

He probably had them already from a different order(possibly one from masterkeyed system). At lest that's my theory.