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ERA Viscount

European hardware -lever locks, profile cylinders specific for European locks. European lock picks and European locks.

ERA Viscount

Postby femurat » 12 Mar 2009 8:20

Image

After playing with my first lever lock, I was looking for an era profit or a warded lever lock to play with, and finally I got it!
I had just the time to shot a photo before removing the side to see how it works.
It's a very interesting lock, it's quite simple but seems very well made.
There are 5 levers of three different heights. The levers are anti-pick... we'll see :wink:

I have to make a 2in1 tool cause there is a ward that makes difficult to use my L shaped wires. I'd like to make something like this. Am I going in the right direction?

Any suggestion welcome :)
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Re: ERA Viscount

Postby femurat » 17 Mar 2009 5:24

Image

As you can see from the bolt, that is free to go back, I did it! 8)
The warding makes all the difference. Also the anti pick levers are difficult to understand. You can think you have done it, but there's a lever locked by its false notch that can drive you crazy! If so you have to release tension and start again, with a softer touch.

I know I have to make better tools but for now my bent spokes were a good fast approach. If anybody could give me some suggestion or ideas to proceed...

Cheers :)
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Re: ERA Viscount

Postby Engineer » 17 Mar 2009 22:20

You're not being fair to yourself! For first tools, those are pretty good.

If you could get some *slightly* thinner wire, it might give you a little more room to work. I'm looking for some thinner bike spokes myself...

I personally would have made made the handle on the one that throws the bolt as small as possible. I know this makes it a little harder to turn, but I find it increases the sensitivy and it also can help when the lock is mounted in a door and you are catching you hand on the doorway/handle/etc. I prefer to give my hand with the pick in as much of the available room as possible.

You can also make the bolt-throwing fairly large IF you don't mind making left and right-handed versions of them (depending on which side of the lock you have to pick it from).
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Re: ERA Viscount

Postby toomush2drink » 18 Mar 2009 17:05

Over lift the high lifts then set the others and feather the tension to allow the others to drop and open the lock.
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Re: ERA Viscount

Postby femurat » 20 Mar 2009 6:34

Engineer, you're right about the needs of more room. Instead of thinner bike spokes I'll try the two spring steel rods that I found on a file box holder. These are much thinner than spokes, I hope they works. I'll let you know.
Image
I don't mind making two bolt throwers. I looked for templates but had no luck... any tip about their shape?

toomush2drink, thanks for your suggestion, I'll try that.

Cheers :)
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Re: ERA Viscount

Postby Engineer » 20 Mar 2009 9:10

EXCELENT idea Femurat! I know just the things you mean - Some of the (older?) lever arch files have them for holding the pages in place as the file is moved. I've not seen one with those spring wires in for some time, but then I've not been looking either...

From what I rememner of them, the ones I had were VERY high quality spring wire and remarkably strong for their thiness. If you can bend them to suit, without loosing that temper, they might well be very good indeed.

For the bolt-thrower wire, I always used an asymetric "Z" shape. Actually, that's not exactly right on reconsideration, since the angles were 90 degrees, not the 70 degrees or so for a "Z". Sorry, being a pedantic here, but I'm sure you know what I mean - I just can't type the shape in ASCII art, since on pressing "submit" all the formatting is lost and it comes out a jumble mess.

I always start with the shortest part of the shape, the bit that fits in the lock and actually throws the bolt. You take this length from a key for the lock. Normally you only need a a simple "L" shape on the end, but if the key has the relatively unusual side-wards on it (cuts in the side and not just the end of the key), then you need a sort of cascaded 2 L's to get past them. Better to make them a bit too long as they can be cut down

The next part is the shaft. This needs to be long enough to get out of the lock, out of the thickness of the door and allow you enough room for you knuckes against the door. Personally I usually go for 2" to 4", unless it is for something really unusual. With these thin wires, probably best to go for something nearer to 2".

Whatever is left you make the handle from! With these shortish wires, you might not have a lot left and will need to make a handle for them. The smaller and lighter the better generally. A 3" to 4" length of 1/4" wooden dowel might be good?

With wire this fine, there is just a slight possiblily that they will poke between the levers in the lock and tend to become fast. If this happens, a small piece of aluminium about 1mm thick and perhaps 10mm long can be folded in half over the wire and pressed onto it. It can then be filed down into just a bit thinner than the thickness of the levers.

Remember that the most strength is needed for throwing the bolt, so if the wire proves too thin, then keep the bicycle spoke for the bolt-thrower and use the lever arch spring wire for the lever lifter "pick". Hopefully it should give you enough room for them to still work really well. I hope so, you are doing a good job :lol:
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Re: ERA Viscount

Postby femurat » 20 Mar 2009 9:56

Thanks a lot Engineer, your explanation is clear and useful. This weekend I'll see what I can do.
The aluminum tube idea is brilliant! 8)

Cheers :)
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Re: ERA Viscount

Postby femurat » 11 Apr 2009 11:08

Image

It took a wile... but finally I found some time to complete this little project. It was very easy, following Engineer's detailed instructions :)

I made the lever lifter with the spring wire, I was surprised by its efficency: it's thin but very strong. It was not easy to bend it and once bent it's almost impossible to ruin its shape. I didn't need to fold the tip with aluminium, the wire thickness was enough to prevent it from sliding between the levers.

The wooden dowel was a great idea for the handles. I made a little hole to put the wire into, so both sides of every spring can be used. With 2 springs I made this set with 4 different lenghts.
For the bolt thrower a bike spoke was the best choiche: the spring was strong enough but too... springy :)

I think this set is the best result I can get with wire. I'm also looking for a template to make a curtain pick starting from a keyblank, but that's another story...

Cheers :)
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Re: ERA Viscount

Postby Engineer » 11 Apr 2009 11:32

Those are really impressive - You could easily think they were commercial products.

Well Done!!!
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Re: ERA Viscount

Postby dogsbollocks » 18 Apr 2009 5:32

or you could go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNkAH1tLOV8

seen a guy pick it with wires :P
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Re: ERA Viscount

Postby Engineer » 18 Apr 2009 11:28

Friend of yours dogbollocks? (same accent as yours) Interesting to see anyway.

Femurat, you picture isn't showing up today, is there a problem with it, or is my computer having an off day again?

The wires method of opening a lever lock is more like Femurat's first attempt, but the second (for which the picture isn't showing for me today) is more like "Single Pin Picking" on a cylinder lock is, in that the levers are all lifted individually, so you exploit the tolerances in manufacture. The wires method relies on the manufacturers making the bars of the levers all the same thickness. A simple change by the manufacturers, or even narrowing one yourself with a file will make the lock impossible to open by that method.

Although "wires" opening is long-known by locksmiths, it rarely seems to get mentioned. That is why the video is interesting to see anyway. To properly follow what is going on, you need to know a fair bit about the construction of lever locks. The video might have been clearer for some if you had used one of the clear plastic sides for lever locks that are sold (or can be made yourself). The only problem with using them is that they soon get badly scrached up, especially with this sort of opening.

The wire looked like it had a straight-cut end? I find a little rounding-off of the ends will sometimes allow that important little more freedom of movement inside the lock and not get caught quite so much as straight-cut one.
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Re: ERA Viscount

Postby femurat » 20 Apr 2009 3:22

Interesting find dogsbollocks, this guy seems to have found a bypass method for this lock. As far as I can see from the video, he's lifting all the levers at the same time by inserting the bent wire in the hole where the bolt is supposed to slide. So he's not picking the lock, otherwise the wire should lift the levers by their bottom, where the key is supposed to go.

Engineer, I've noticed that sometimes my pictures (hosted for free) are VERY slow to download... so it's not your pc fault.
About the plexyglass side, I was going to make it for this lock too, like the one I made for my garage lock, but I found much more challenging to pick it "blindly".
Anyway if you pick with care, and give a a little rounding-off to the pick ends, the plexyglass doesn't get scratched for a while. And as you suggested the feedback is a lot better.

Cheers :)
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Re: ERA Viscount

Postby raimundo » 21 Apr 2009 10:40

Hey Engineer, I recognized the voice, its Groundskeeper Willie :lol:
Wake up and smell the Kafka!!!
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Re: ERA Viscount

Postby dogsbollocks » 21 Apr 2009 12:57

now thats funny :D
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Re: ERA Viscount

Postby Engineer » 21 Apr 2009 13:09

Very good Raimundo! :lol:
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