Beginner Lock?

[benjour]

Hey again people!
I've been having a quick mosey on the interweb and have stumbled across this as a potential beginner lock;

http://www.screwfix.com/p/era-6-pin-eur ... rass/67015

I was wondering if anyone had any views on this, or could suggest a better beginner lock (given I'm in the UK)?
Also, are there any particular UK padlocks that I should use as a portable beginner's practice-thing?
Many thanks!

[GWiens2001]

Can't see the keyway. You might google the Ulitmate Challenge Practice Lock. It is very easy to repin to however many pins you are ready for, and comes with lots more key pins, driver pins, spools and springs. It would be a lot easier to repin than the lock in the link, but can be a good challenge as you progress in your picking ability.

As you need tips, browse our various topics and forums. We are always glad to help!

Best of luck,

Gordon

[MrAnybody]

I very much agree with Gordon, you can repin a lock like this first for 1 pin, then 2 pins, etc and progress. This is a great way to learn some basics.

But the reason I'm posting is that since you're in the UK, you can get a cheaper deal than waiting for the Ultimate Challenge Lock' to arrive from USA. It's a cut away lock so you can also check out its workings as you pick the pins.

Check out this one on Ebay UK: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LOCKSMITH-CUT ... 4abf58ff2f

It's pretty much the same thing except but you don't get all the extra bits. You can skim those off dead locks (thing boot fairs / flea markets), and you'll have a nice starting lock with all the freedom you could wish for to rig it as you want. It would definitely save cash on lots of individual locks you'll buy for a while, anyhow.

[GWiens2001]

That is a very good idea, MrAnybody.

But Benjour, keep in mind that a cutaway, while a good learning tool for understanding what is happening inside a lock, does not perform exactly as a non-cutaway lock works.

The cutaway can be good for understanding not only what the parts of the lock are doing, but also what your picks are causing to happen inside the lock. I had a pretty good idea of what was happening inside a standard pin tumbler lock, and figured it out for spools, while learning to pick, so had no need for a cutaway. But I am starting to work with locks that behave differently, so have made arrangements with SnowyBoy (a member here!) who makes the best cutaways I have seen. Oh, by the way, he is also from the United Kingdom, another plus for you!

Gordon

[Solomon]

6 pin ERA euros have spool pins and the tolerances are actually pretty decent. Not particularly hard, but I wouldn't say it's a beginner lock. You do need to take your time with them, maybe not so much as yales but they can be tricky enough. By all means get one to play with though! I'd recommend getting one of their 5 pin rim cylinders, those are easier to repin for training and they don't have spools (at least none of the ones I've picked did).

If you want something that definitely hasn't got spools, try Sterling or Bird. Laird or Alpro would also be good choices, although the tolerances in those are pretty bad meaning you won't necessarily get clean feedback... so you'll probably find yourself having to go back and forth a bit to make sure pins are actually set properly. I've found Eurospec (E*S) cylinders to be really nice to pick, really clean feedback and usually a very definitive binding order. Definitely pick one of those up! Stay away from the MP10 though.

The keyway on all of those is the standard 1A (universal/yale) profile. You might struggle with the warding a little at first, but it's the most common profile you'll come across in the UK so you may get used to it! You'll develop muscle memory for it in time so don't think too much about it.

[benjour]

Thanks all for such helpful replies.
So the general consensus is I'll stay away from the cheap Screwfix one, for the time being at least.
Gordon, how would a cutaway behave differently to a non-cutaway lock? I guess in theory I have a relatively good idea as to what's going on inside a lock, but putting that into practice may be my downfall...
I shall bear in mind SnowyBoy, he sounds like quite the asset! I guess I'm struggling to start off as there doesn't seem to be as much of a following in the UK as there is in the US (maybe I'm just a little blind...)
Thanks for the link MrAnybody! I had stumbled across the ultimate challenge lock before even joining this forum! That looks like a handy little cutaway, do you know anything about the quality of it? It doesn't seem to have any mention of quality aside from being 'all brass' and 'exposing the shear line'.
Thanks again all!
Ben

[GWiens2001]

Thanks all for such helpful replies.
So the general consensus is I'll stay away from the cheap Screwfix one, for the time being at least.
Gordon, how would a cutaway behave differently to a non-cutaway lock? I guess in theory I have a relatively good idea as to what's going on inside a lock, but putting that into practice may be my downfall...

Thanks again all!
Ben

Ben,

Have not had a cutaway, though some are on the way. Have seen quite a few, but not stuck any tools inside them. However from those who have done so, I hear that due to part of the pin holes (chimneys) being removed, the pins do not feel exactly the same way as when the chimneys are complete. But it is close enough to be a decent training aid. Just be aware the locks that are not cut away will feel slightly different.

Gordon

[benjour]

I can't thank you enough Gordon! Sounds like it'd be a worthy investment considering I've never picked a lock before. I know from self-teaching guitar that you HAVE to start with the basics,even if (in the case of lock picking) that means picking a 1-pin cutaway for starters. I think I'll go ahead and get it, get used to SPP and getting tensions right etc... I think my plan of action is to get started with this, so I can get a beginner's feel to the art then purchase a non-cutaway cylinder and see where that takes me!
Thanks again,
Ben

[MrAnybody]

Thanks for the link MrAnybody! I had stumbled across the ultimate challenge lock before even joining this forum! That looks like a handy little cutaway, do you know anything about the quality of it? It doesn't seem to have any mention of quality aside from being 'all brass' and 'exposing the shear line'.
Ben

I haven't see one myself, so I couldn't personally vouch for its quality, but have a look at the Seller's feedback, that might give you an idea.

From what I can see of the pic, it looks good.

[benjour]

The sellers feedback seems to be generally pretty darned good! However, it seems to me that a lot of the feedback are from 'Private' sales, so I cannot tell what the item in question is. The seller doesn't seem to have many particularly different items for sale though so I may assume that the good feedback is from similar items.
Many thanks again!
Ben

[Solomon]

Cutaways are cool, but you'd be much better off with a regular cylinder you can just repin. Trust me, I had one of those clear practice locks when I first started out and it didn't really help much. When you take the time to feel the differences between the pins as you put them in one by one, and you can't cheat by looking, it's like a lightbulb factory in your head. You just don't get that with a cutaway.

I didn't bother with progressive pinning until I started getting into high security stuff, and I'd been picking for years before that... then it just clicked, everything made sense. I went and picked everything on my shelf and for the first time I felt like I really knew what I was doing. To my surprise, I also picked some locks that previously I'd gotten nowhere with and locks I struggled with before were suddenly much easier. Progressive pinning. Do it. And don't just jiggle the pins around and say "that was too easy" before adding another. Take the time to really feel them and pick it properly. It pays off more than you could imagine.

[benjour]

Thanks Solomon.
Would you therefore say, in hindsight, that progressive pinning would have been a good starting point? My aim was to be able to differentiate between pins and actually get a feel for what I'm going to be doing, rather than raking the hell out of them and saying 'I may as well be a locksmith'. But in all seriousness, is there anything you could suggest as a good starter lock for a UK-dweller such as myself? I'd much rather it be something I can re-pin relatively easily... The attraction to that particular cutaway is that I could re-pin with progressive pins and transfer to spools when I'm ready, all in one set. If there's something similar (and hopefully cheaper than the ultimate practice/challenge lock) then that sounds ideal to me.
Massive thanks,
Ben

[Solomon]

Definitely. I really wish I'd just learned it properly in the first place, and progressive pinning is the best way to really get the feel for the pins and differentiate between pin states.

Get a 5 pin Sterling rim cylinder off ebay. Those have regular pins. You can take them apart and repin easily using a plug follower and tweezers; the circlip can be pried off with a small screwdriver. You don't need to buy any tools, the only thing you need to put effort into finding is something to use as a follower and it's not that hard. I use an old counterfeit detector pen I cut in half, it's not the perfect size but it doesn't have to be. Providing it fits in the lock and doesn't have more than say a 1mm gap, it's fine. You could use wooden dowel or brass stock, or whatever you want.

If you want something with spools in it, buy a Zone. Those have 4 spools + 1 regular, and the regular driver is always in the first chamber. If you get a 6 pin model (I think only euros have 6), it's the same deal, 5 spools + 1 regular in chamber 1.

There's no sense paying for the ultimate whatever it is. To say it's overpriced is an understatement; you could put together a very respectable variety of locks for that kind of money. Those 2 cylinders I mentioned will cost about 3-4 quid each on ebay and are great to get you started. Get the feel for those locks as they are, swap the pins around to keep yourself on your toes a little, then start collecting more locks. Go for different formats, brands etc to give yourself plenty of variety. I highly recommend learning to pick in a vice as well... some say it's more difficult, but I find I have a lot more precision and control when the lock is sitting firm and solid.

If you're really itching to get started, you should be able to get a standard 5 pin rim cylinder without any security pins from B&Q or any hardware shop, but it'll cost twice as much as you'd pay on ebay. Good luck! Feel free to ask about any locks you come across on ebay, we can advise you on pretty much anything you can find on there.

[benjour]

Ah that sounds all good and reasonable. I guess I now have a bit of a dilemma, in the sense that I've been told to get a cutaway and now to not get one Regardless, progressive pinning is almost certainly the first thing I'm going to learn.
I've found;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Sterling- ... 19d33ec8c9
which I think is the 5-pin rim cylinder you were on about? And as for a follower i've heard things like Sharpie pen-lids are pretty good, I'm sure I could find something that would fit the bill.
In an ideal world I'd have liked to have found a lock with spools as spare pins, which I could introduce one by one once I got the hang of SPP non-spooled locks. However, aside from the cutaway and the overpriced practice lock, this seems to only be possible by buying more than one lock?
I'll definitely have a go at picking in a vice, although odds are I'll get hooked and want to practice between lectures to give my brain a rest from degree-level chemistry
Many thanks, yet again!
Ben

[Solomon]

Yup, that's the one I mean. Nab it!

As for spools, there was a site selling sets of spool pins for a while but they've stopped doing them. No point buying spools to put into a lock anyway when you can just buy one which is already full of them. Just grab a Zone or Iseo and practice on that, pinning up one stack at a time like before. You might even find spools easier to pick because of the exagerrated feedback; a lot of people will tip their hats to that. Don't think too much about it until you have the thing sitting in front of ya!

By the way, Iseo euros are very common but I don't know if they do rim cylinders. They do screw-in mortise though, which will disassemble and repin just the same. Unlike Zone, the regular pin is always in chamber 3 so be mindful of that. I suggested zone specifically because you can pretty much always set the front pin to force it into a false set - and this is a nice easy way to learn the general behaviour of spools. Obviously this is true for pin 3 in an iseo, but it's easier when it's right at the front if you're just starting out.