7 and 9 lever mortice locks

[LordRezno]

Hello!

First post, here goes:

1) What about curtained mortices? Can anyone point me in a direction, preferrably online, to some info on how they look inside?

2)
In sweden it's often classic cylinders of the "hard to pick" variety and an extra 7 or 9 lever mortice is a pretty standard security feature on appartment and house doors, some forms of insurance even require it. I'll be going for that combo when i get my own place. Not impenetrable but getting through it will make a loud ruckus and take some time.
As i've understood it's a pretty big deal to open such a lock, people claim they are unpickable wich sounds like a challenge to me
I'm going second hand shopping for one or two of these, cut one to see it work and try to figure it out a little.
Popular brands among retailers nowadays are Dorma, FAS (wich i think are made by assa) but there are others.
I immagine different brands have different configurations and while being so highly rated they're
probably curtained in some ingenious way.
So, does anyone have experience to share on these types of locks?
What would I need to pick them? I'm guessing a "2 in 1" pick of the right gauge isn't gonna do it right? Saw a tool on the walker locksmiths homepage a while ago for curtained mortice locks.

[LordRezno]

Yeah, so i found Illusions awesome guide to lever picking, wich was very enlightening!

I'm resolved to get my hands on one of these tougher lever locks and open it, how else to learn?
Will be posting images here when i finds me one and gut it. Maybe there might be a chance to build
specific picks for it, yet another learning experience

If there is interest i can post pictures, but it might be a while.

[zeke79]

The easiest way to build picks for curtained lever locks is to simply use a blank key. You will need one modified blank for picking locks that are installed right handed and one modified blank for picking locks installed left handed. Simply file down the bit portion of the blank until it will turn the curtain but will not contact the lever pack. You want some clearance in there but not so much that it slips in the curtain. The curtain is what provides the tension. Once that is done you can simply grind 1/4 of the stem of the blank away and a small portion of the bit that engadges the curtain just thinning it out a bit which will allow you to manipulate a wire inside the lock. You then simply bend and file the wire so it will slip under each lever while you have tension on the curtain with the blank. Wires can be made from alot of things. Some use bicycle spokes but I find them a bit thick. If I recall correctly I made mine from piano wire i had laying around.

That may be tough to visualize but hopefully it helps.

If the locks you are working with do not have a curtain then you will go with a 2 in 1 style pick. Depending on the lock you are working with though these may or may not work. If your lock has the bolt in the middle of the lever pack you may run into trouble unless you can fit both pick ends of the two in one on the bolt stump to switch from picking above the bolt stump and below the bolt stump without removing tension.

Again I hope that make sense without pictures to explain.

[LordRezno]

The easiest way to build picks for curtained lever locks is to simply use a blank key. You will need one modified blank for picking locks that are installed right handed and one modified blank for picking locks installed left handed. Simply file down the bit portion of the blank until it will turn the curtain but will not contact the lever pack. You want some clearance in there but not so much that it slips in the curtain. The curtain is what provides the tension. Once that is done you can simply grind 1/4 of the stem of the blank away and a small portion of the bit that engadges the curtain just thinning it out a bit which will allow you to manipulate a wire inside the lock. You then simply bend and file the wire so it will slip under each lever while you have tension on the curtain with the blank. Wires can be made from alot of things. Some use bicycle spokes but I find them a bit thick. If I recall correctly I made mine from piano wire i had laying around.

That may be tough to visualize but hopefully it helps.

If the locks you are working with do not have a curtain then you will go with a 2 in 1 style pick. Depending on the lock you are working with though these may or may not work. If your lock has the bolt in the middle of the lever pack you may run into trouble unless you can fit both pick ends of the two in one on the bolt stump to switch from picking above the bolt stump and below the bolt stump without removing tension.

Again I hope that make sense without pictures to explain.

That does make a lot of sense, thanks! Now i have a working vision of how it might work out

Ok i'll have to draw a little to understand how to make the wirepick fit in, but there might be pics of similar DIY projects either here or on the general web.
I'm guessing i need the wire pick to be a little bit higher than the stem so i can jiggle those levers high and low.

For the left/right issue it'd be a question of putting the tension stem of the modified key in the front or in the back?

At first i really didn't understand what you meant "If your lock has the bolt in the middle of the lever pack" but now i get it, that possibility hadn't even occurred to me! Would you recommend a pair of side dedicated picks or a L+R style one in that case?

Maybe this is a stupid question but could it be possible to have a curtained "bolt in the middle" lock?

Thanks a bunch Zeke79!

[zeke79]

The wire should wrap around the stem a bit. A small bend if you will and needs to be filed at that area so it slides under each lever regardless if the lever sets high or low.

Yes you are correct that you can swap the modified blank from front to back in a practice lock but this cannot be done in a lockout situation if you are locksmithing. It would be best to have two modified blanks per each size of curtain you are picking so you learn the feel of picking each direction.

If you are picking not curtained locks you will use a 2 in 1 pick. These types of locks are where you are going to run into a bolt stump in the middle of the lever pack possibly. If you dont want to spend the money on or make a 2 in 1 pick then you can pick alot of these with just a set of bent wires. If the bolt stump is in the middle of the lever pack it does get more difficult to pick with just a set of wires. A curtain pickset will be of no help with a non curtained lever lock.

[sandplum]

A curtain pickset will be of no help with a non curtained lever lock.

Why? Is this because the curtain pick isn't the right length to tension the bolt, or are there other reasons?

[LordRezno]

A curtain pickset will be of no help with a non curtained lever lock.

Why? Is this because the curtain pick isn't the right length to tension the bolt, or are there other reasons?

Zeke79 ->
You wouldn't have pics of what you mean because you just lost me there man
Ok, that clarifies it. And im guessing wether or not its a left or right hand tension variant depends on wich direction the bolt connects with the doorframe?

Sandplum ->
Good question!

[LordRezno]

Talked to a local locksmith today about the 7 lever variety and he said the Dorma and FAS brands are basically the same construction-wise and are in fact curtained, good to know.
I told him I was going to attempt making picks for them and he got excited and promised to look in his "scrapbox" for any non sellable but fully functional pieces to pass me for a good price, i guess everyones happy!

Funny thing is he had never even considered picking a lock on the job since he thought it'd be time consuming and tricky so he had in fact never learned to pick locks. Told him about this site and a swedish site that sells pin tumbler picks and he was gonna try it.

He did say he had a secret trick for these models of locks and dared me to find it out so its on now!

[LordRezno]

So i've finally got my hands on an older model and it's not curtained, it's simly warded with a "donut" around the round part of the keyhole, so there's no need for a curtain-pick, i guess a bolt thrower curved to fit around it without touching the levers is enough and grinding a bike-wheel spoke down thin enough to be able to pick individual levers. Shouldn't be too complicated, learing to pick it is a whole other pair of mittens i guess

Still need to get a more state of the art or at least newer model for comparison and see if they've started curtaining them lately.

I'll post photos tomorrow with better light.

[lock-ed]

LordRezno,
it sounds like you are well under way with your investigation
It would be very interesting to see which locks excactly you are looking at. There are small variations to the tools depending on model. However, some require heavy torqueing so make your tool strong!

The most common in Norway are:
Boda428

and FAS309

Not my pictures, thank you Google

Keep us updated! And post manymanymany pictures!

Thx,
Ed

[zeke79]

If the boda is common here are a couple pics of the internals.

[LordRezno]

Hullo!

Däng there's been activities here!

Right - Ed, nice one! Haven't seen the bodas with those types of keys and mechanism around here, but the FAS309 is very popular in Sweden too.
Zeke - That is serious porn.

I've got an older model of the FAS 7-lever model, i took some pics yesterday and i''ve already started cutting it a little bit since there's no perspex around the house so i'm just gonna make a peeping hole big enought to see the levers moving in the pack, got a nice grinder to try out as well. It's probably gonna look like a monster but i'll grind the sides down and try to make it prettier.

Tried making some picks from piano wire yesterday but the 1mm version is way too bendy to activate the levers proper and the 2mm one is a serious b*tch to bend but i'll get it right, grinding the tips flat and thin enough to pick individual levers - ideally at least. I need to sync my phone for pics. Tomorrow good sirs, tomorrow!

[LordRezno]

Right, pics as promised - feast your eyes on this cute little baby! I couldn't help myself and went ahead and cut it this morning, it looks a little sad now but it also makes a pretty indispensable learning tool because trying to fidget blindly inside this felt a lot like swimming in oil. Onwards to pictures then!

This is the bolt side of the 7 lever


This is the pack side, with the vintage sticker that says "7 Tillhållare" and my roughhanded first cut


Inside mechanics view


Inside mechanics at an angle, details of the lever-pack


indiviual levers 1 and 2


and VOILÁ, vandalism has been done. This is my first cutting of a lock, i tried a budget variant-dremel style grinder and it worked out pretty ok as you can see. Functionality before style here, next time i'll try to be more arty with it. Future plans for this one include opening the bolt side too so one can see the bolt in action more clearly.


Eureka! It worked, my sausage fingers have not destroyed functionality of the mechanism (seriously proud of myself right now ) : The lock is now locked (works smooth as ever) and a view of the corresponding key also.



I got three working keys for this so i'm thinking i'll make two of them into tensioning tools and still have a good key should i botch that process completely.

[LordRezno]

Oh yeah, tried making picks and a tensioner for it too.
2 mm piano wire, what a strong and resilient material!

Maybe this is the wrong place to post this (should be in DIY hall of Shame really)?
They look terrible and they're way too thick to fit inside properly but they're just prototypes. I've made the handles (the little bend sticking up down and to the right is the tensioner handle btw) by just bending them into shapes that fit my hand and they have a little springyness in them so they have some feedback and a bit of torque gives a good tension without being too agressive. That's the plan at least.

Here are the three little stunted ones:
A sort of overlifter (left), a tension tool that snakes around the donut ring that wards the keyhole (middle) and one individual lever pick and poker (right) bent to a shape that snakes around the tensioner and with a little wiggling reaches the lever furthest from the bolt wich is also subject to the warding as you can see from the key... maybe that's obvious to you guys who are experienced in this sort of mechanisms but to me it wasn't clear until i poked around inside with a 90° bend and could make it touch the last one.


I bent the wire with a wrench and these pliers i found in the toolbox. All good for the first two but bending the overlifter shape caused this:


Either my hands are seriously strong or i should go and try to get a refund.

[LordRezno]

Hi again, after a hiatus i have returned, partly because i recently found a news clipping detailing how a group of thieves had made a working pick for the FAS 7 model locks. Authorities were shocked, a homeowner had apparently scared two thieves away and in the process they had no time to retrieve their pick. Swedish locksmiths had been interviewed and were in disbelief that this was even possible. I was surprised no one had googled "picking a mortice lock", then i felt guilty for posting my research into these locks and then i remembered that the possible misuse of the info i had posted wasn't on me. Still feel like a possible enabler but i'm a big boy now.

I'm looking for a picture of it, it looked like they had used a blank and made it into a L+R variant by keeping the two outermost teeth and filing the middle 5 down to the shaft.
No built in torsion, maybe they had a pair of pliers.
Shaft had about 90° taken out for a single lifter made out of piano wire.

In an event of karma i had a B&E in my den and the little miscreants stole my dremel so there are currently no tools to replicate the pick.