Questions about abloy boda lever lock.

[Tattoo Guy]

Looking at the picture of the lock I think you would need to set all 8 levers for the stump to be moved to the mid point then set all 8 levers a second time to fully pick this lock.

This I think would be virtually impossible with a standard 2in1 pick because as you tensioned the bolt in the middle of the pack you would not then be able to lift the levers of either side of it.

The only possibility I can see of picking this lock manually would be to somehow make a 3in1 pick which would allow you to tension the bolt and also manipulate the levers on both side.

I have a picture that I have drawn which shows my idea of a 3in1 pick but I'm not sure how to post it could someone let me know,

cheers

[Dimmy Locks]

After having slept, and taking another close look at the levers in respect of the anti- picks, I've noticed something you will not like zeke.

If the bolt is fully extended, The bolt stump will already be positioned into almost all the 1st set of anti pick notches, simply apply tension to the bolt will only make it sit deeper into these anti pick notches and therefor making it impossible to apply tension from the start.
At present, and after considering the options, I have come up with the following solution, but it will take considerable concentration and plenty of notes on your part.
You will have to 1st apply VERY light tension to the bolt, and then , 1 lever at a time try to work out if each lever is fully in the anti pick (all of the bolt stump sitting in a full depth anti pick) or in the "V" of the anti pick ( look closer at the "V" profile of the bolt stump and the"tooth/tang" of the levers to understand what I mean) or wether the lever has no anti pick in that position. you will then have to make notes for all your findings and then working out which levers must be lifted past the upper anti picks before applying tension. Its also worth noting that the bolt stump, not only has the anti pick "V" notch cut into it, but also is rounded off so as to remove the square profile to the anti pick side... NASTY!!!!
To better understand, the different anti pick settings can be clearly seen on the top lever in the photo. On the top left anti pick is a full position anti pick, the whole of the bolt stump will sit into the anti pick notch if u apply tension to bolt. top right and it has no anti pick in that position. Over lift that lever and bottom left may either partially engage the anti pick ( the "v" engaging) or fully engage (the whole bolt stump). Over lift for the bottom right and only the partial anti pick will engage, the anti pick notch doesnt look big enough to take the whole of the bolt stump.

Once you believe u know each shape of anti pick notch you have for each lever and in each position you will then have to work out how to miss each anti pick yet at the same time get them all in the gate so u can withdraw the bolt. As I've said in an earlier posting, I believe this lock has a cypher code, if you understand how it works for this lock , knowing some lever positions will, infact, give you a corresponding position to another lever, after doing a quick code conversion.

Heres the real boner. Not only do I now not believe a 2in1 pick will work on this lock, but I really cant see how it can be picked with just 1 tensioner and 1 pick. Mutiple pick will be required, each to lift each lever past the anti picks that exist in the "parked" position.
Decyphering this lock, may be possible, after extensive practice, so you can get a key cut to open is, IMHO, not only the most practical, but probably the only method of getting this lock to open. Unless you are adept at handling a tension wire, and AT LEAST 6 lift wires, being operated at same time!!!
I don't say its impossible to pick this lock, but I have to say, I'm VERY impressed in the thought thats gone into designing it.

[Dimmy Locks]

Sorry to keep rattling on about this lock but its really got me buzzing.

It's worth noting that the gates are pretty wide compared to the bolt stump, and looking at the key, most of the lever settings for this particular lock are fairly central giving me an idea. If u can lift ALL the levers to their middle lift range before attempting to pick, you may well have better success in overcome most of the anti pick issues. I dont see any cuts on the key for minimum or maximum cuts, and thats why I sugguest lifting the whole lever pack to a central position before attempting to pick/ decypher.

[toomush2drink]

Looking at the pictures i dont see why it wouldnt be possible to pick this with 2 wires. Remember the shape of the key is actually giving you more room to work.You could tension it in the middle and work a wire around this wire usinig the key holes wide shape. The anti pick notches will most likely feel "locked up tight" when your in them but the gate should feel "looser" but not as loose as an unset lever. I hope that makes sense and its only my thoughts on what appears to be a safe lock.

[zeke79]

toomush,

That makes perfect sense to me and that is the way I had decided to pursue this lock. The lock in fact though is designed to be installed in wood doors and used as a dead lock I assume. I have the instructions and the rest of the hardware that came with the lock.

[illusion]

Yeah, that seems right.. the middle stump could be tensioned with a wire, and the levers lifted with another wire.

a 2-in-1 pick has the notch which catches the bolt at the very end and this works well for locks with single bitted keys, but what if you made a different one, with the notch further back, so you could pick both sets of levers without having to constantly adjust?

[Dimmy Locks]

The 2in 1 tool is successful on our lever locks because we dont have anti picks in the parked position, we can apply tension from the onset and locate the 1st lever meeting resistance .
That simply cannot be the case with this lock. Hence my reasoning to somehow lift all the levers to a more central position before applying tension to the bolt.
A 2 tool set up that enables u to lift all the levers at same time and tension the bolt and then further manipuate individual levers will be so cool
If he were to tension the bolt then find a lever thats resisting without lifting all the levers to a more central position, yes he could perhaps raise it to the gate but he wouldnt be able to set it, as he'll have to release tension on the bolt to then find another lever that may well be in a "park position" anti pick. Then he'd have to lift that lever out of anti pick re raise the 1st lever back to the gate before then re applying tension so as to gate the 2nd lever. I beleive the "parked position" anti picks are there to defend agains.t tension picking from the parked position as we do it over here.
I still firmly believe ALL 8 levers should be raised and held to a more central position before applying tension to the bolt, to allow further lever manipulation. I considered with a a wire resting from 1 keyway to another and with a "U" shaped bend in middle to miss the bolt but that wont be possible as the spacing plates are fixed and wont allow such a simple lifting method. The levers move in a straight line,unlike ours which pivot. The spacing plates, although have plenty of play, will not lift.

I do have an idea of a 2 in1 tool utilising the decypher code for this lock, but even with that it will require 4 purpose designed picks and a seperate tensioner.

Btw Zeke, if you need to know more about the decypher method on this lever arrangement please PM or AIM me, as I think it's not appropriate to pass that out in an open forum. What I will tell you is, when you have found the right height for 1 lever for the 1st bolt position, u will know the right height for its 2nd bolt position as well as a corresponding lever , for both bolt positions. in other words, find position 1 for 1 lever and u have 2 positions for 2 levers. Put simply, if u can find the right height for 4 levers for bolt position 1 u have decyphered this lock and will know all 8 lever positions for both bolt gates. Knowing that will give you a heads up on total picking of this lock.

Or if you have access to the Advanced Forums, I'll be happy to email what I know about this locks cypher to 1 of the MODS who could possibly post it there, seeing as I'm not privvy to that area (yet) <g>.

[toomush2drink]

Not all the levers would be in the anti picks when tension is applied, you could still lift other levers to set them in anti picks or the gates. By doing this it may be possible to work out which is a high or low cut. You could actually use the anti pick notches to decode it after all if the other levers are already in anti picks you shouldnt be able to overlift into a bottom anti pick notch only lift it into an anti pick or the gate.
The levers sliding up and down are no different to a legge or assec and you can feel when these are in an anti pick notch so why not on this lock ? Dont get me wrong im not saying this lock can be picked but it could be decoded and falle probably has a tool already but for us mere mortals its a great debate

[Rick-the-Pick]

This might be a late answer here guy's!
This is similar to a lock Mr Dale challenged me with a few year's back.
I opened it with a 2 in 1.
If i remember rightly, it made me sweat!

[greyman]

I agree with Tatoo Guy. I don't think a 2 in 1 pick would work on this type of doube-bitted key lever lock. The problem is that you need to tension the bolt which is in the middle of the lever pack: 4 levers below and 4 above. You're going to need a "3 in 1" pick - with the middle bit doing the tensioning. You's also need to pick it twice since its double throw, although once you've picked it half way, you'd know what to expect - it's just the opposite settings for each lever. i.e. if lever 1 is high lift on the first gate then it's low lift on the second.

Does anyone know about impressioning this type of lock?

[turnkit]

The chez link info is gone but can still be found (picture takes a bit of time to load) here:

http://web.archive.org/web/200505170757 ... ouble.html

[greyman]

Bit late, I know, but there is a write-up of the Italian double-bit key lever lock in my book (click on my signature). I believe you can pick these with the right type of tension tool - it just takes up one side of the keyhole and you can use a pick in the other side. Don't think a 3-in-1 is needed (correction to my book!), in fact I've never seen such a tool. BTW there's a typo in my book - it says 6 levers but the picture is of an 8 lever lock, like the one in this thread.

cheers

greyman

[Jaakko]

This Boda 429 locks is probably the most common deadbolt lock used as secondary protection on a door in Finland. Mostly found on apartment doors.

The lock can be opened from either side with the same key, hence the mirrored key. Picking is possible, but I would go with decoding the lock and using a make-up key.

zeke, if you want details on how to decode this (as I don't want this on the open), PM me I haven't never done it but it should work on this one also

[98AB49DC5A]

very very late but what the hell. just wondering, how much space is there between the levers. a row of shims could be slid up between the levers lifting the underside of each gate. park the bolt inside the first gate group and the levers will be fixed in place. even if this doesen't work you can still pick it the hard way.

now that's all well and good but you've still got to deal with the second group of gates which are much farther away. you can of course exploit the symmetry inherent in the lock. I propose a tool which resembles a key and is reversible. it has pins that can be locked in place and that can move to simulate a keycut and a detachable element that can move the bolt(like in a normal key). Once the levers are immobilized in either gate group this tool could... not sure how to explain it. think of a tubular lock picked just slightly. if you push a tubular pick into it it the pick would conform to the pins. tighten the pick and you have a working key. this tool would work the same way. the pins are pushed to the correct height by the blocked levers. if you lock them in place you have a working key. you would need to reverse it after each half rotation though.

[amlwchlocksmiths]

by looking it does look like you cant do it with a 2 in 1,unless you can switch the tension over as it looks like you have to use the tension in the middle.it does look like a old ford key.if it hasent got a curten thou you could have to seprate tools for the job one to do the tension and one to pick.