Crash and burn

[jdeacon]

Had my first failure today, and pretty spectacular it was.

Customer called with a superglued Banham rim. They'd tried Superglue solvent but no luck. I said they might end up calling Banham but I'd try if there was a letterbox, no success/no charge (they were just around the corner). There was a letterbox so off I went.

Turned out that the letterbox was protected by a brass chute and a no-go. Gave them the option of calling Banham or having me try to get them inside with a 4mm hole in the door. It was a cold day and they weren't properly dressed so they chose to try the hole. However although the handle was moving OK, it wouldn't unlatch the door. I guessed that glue had made it past the cylinder and into the mechanism.

OK - I'll not charge you then - and you'd better call Banham - which they did. (Banham quoted 60UKP plus VAT to drill out the cylinder plus 90-ish + VAT for replacement; against my 50UKP quote).

Now, said I, you're going to lose the lock anyway, so shall I try melting the superglue to get you in? (They were turning blue with cold by now.)

I hadn't wanted to go that route first off, as I haven't tried torching superglue before, and didn't want to leave them with something worse, like the key getting glued into the lock. It was too cold for the butane in the microtorch to gasify! Maybe it's empty, I thought, I'll just refill it. All I managed to fill was the sleeve of my jacket, which I hadn't taken off. Whoof! Spectacular gout of flame from sleeve on flicking the lighter .

No harm done, thankfully, except to my dignity.

[wtf|pickproof?]

What a day! Well, I'm glad you came out of this all right.

[Shrub]

Did you get them in though?

If they were going to lose the lock anyway i would have got the rotary pick out, chaindrilled if nessacary

[Shrub]

Nice of you to try and warm the customer up though

[toomush2drink]

The only problem with the banhams is that if its the dimpled kind they are surrounded by a hard plate escutcheon bolted through the door and also the pins are hardened too. These are a lot different to the euro type banham and are a tasty piece of kit and not easy to defeat. Shame the hole through the door didnt work even after the attempt with the flame thrower arm

[jdeacon]

It was the evil, hardplate escutcheon variety, so I didn't feel like spending a few drill bits on it. It became clear that the cylinder would have to be replaced; and I wasn't sure (still aren't) if the likes of me can obtain replacement Banham cylinders. So let Banham deal with it, I thought.

It wasn't a total waste. I learned a few things about the LB kit. And I learned the main moral of this tale: when a customer says superglue on a cold winter's morning, put the mini gas torch in a nice warm place as you're leaving. (Which, being motor-cycle-based, means a pocket, I guess. Hmmm, more opportunities for embarassing incendiary effects; or "is that a gas torch or are you just pleased to see me?" )

[toomush2drink]

I think with those cylinders you need to get them from banham as the rim latch is keyed up the same as the cylinder.

[EvoRed]

Talking of Banham's, I was out today and saw a Banham rim latch on a door complete with Banham cylinder. Had a passing look and the rim latch had a BS kitemark on it and wasn't even auto deadlocking. Not being from the Banham neck of the woods I've not really come across them but this can't be right, surely?

[Chrispy]

So..... did you get them in?

[acl]

Banham L111 is automatically deadlocked when the door is shut and doublelocked when you turn the key and does comply to BS 3621.
jd, did you find out why you couldnt push the handle back with the 4mm hole?
Andy

[jdeacon]

Banham L111 is automatically deadlocked when the door is shut and doublelocked when you turn the key and does comply to BS 3621.
jd, did you find out why you couldnt push the handle back with the 4mm hole?
Andy

No, which is really infuriating. The Banham guy didn't give the customer a time - just "this afternoon" - or I'd have hung around out of interest.

All I could think of was that the glue, perhaps aided by the customer's attempts with the superglue solvent, had made past the cylinder into the lockbox; or that somehow I hit a snib with my attempts to get the LB kit around the chute and up to the lock. I can't recall what kind of snib is on a Banham rim. The pictures I have suggest that it's a push button, so accidently setting it is a possibility (and another moral of the tale).

[EvoRed]

I've done that on a warrant. Went through the letterbox to open a latch and the occupier came back not very happy at all about the warrant and everything. He then tried to open the door and it wouldn't open, I'd set the snib and deadlocked it in my attempt with the LB kit.

Had to explain to the occupier, even more upset by now, and fiddle around taking the snib off before opening. One of those 'oh sh!t' moments!

[pixel]

GeGe also make cylinders to fit Banham and will be a bit cheaper.

[acl]

Not seen the Banham with dimple keys (anyone got any decent pics) but im presuming the lock body is the same as the older one? In which case im pretty sure that snib will only allow you to hold the latch back and only when you withdraw it with the key?
Euro do a CHEAP copy of the Banham cylinders not the greatest but could get you out of trouble.About £18 and thats probably before your 50% disc
Andy

[RockerG]

Very interested to read about events by others with the Banhams.

My very first occasion being asked to change keys being a Banham was for a private Landlord who wouldn't pay Banhams to come and change the cylinder. This initially looks like a standard Euro cylinder, but having no means in my early days to buy from Locksmith trade sources like I do now, my local locksmith supplier was my only source, so a new Banham cylinder was going to be out of the question for me.
I suggested that to lower his costs I could make a normal Euro cylinder fit and there would be less of an issue getting future keys cut for students when lost (as they do) while still keeping the full effect as such on the style of the deadlocking Banham. At the time I had no idea if other suppliers could offer exact Banham copy cylinders that matched exactly, but the Euro I fitted went in well. I bought an exact length with a for & aft that matched the original, all I had to do was sink a hole into the lower body part in the right place and tap it out to match the Banham threaded bolt.
A successful adaption on my first Banham lock ever encountered some 23 years ago.
Despite all those offers of lock picking courses out there, the experiences I have gained in the last 25 years has been working for and with other locksmiths gaining real experience on the job, okay making the odd mistake but covering those at my expense. No one is perfect, but the worst part is the comments when out at night,
"not paying that, you only took 5 minutes" !!