Snapping/pulling/bumping Eurocylinders?

[facade]

Hi,

I am stuck with a UPVC front door, with a eurocylinder lock.
Having found out about bumping, (from Motor Cycle News), I downloaded the video from the Toool site (thanks guys ), made a bump key from an old yale key in the drawer and opened my door in about 6 bumps

Being highly paranoid*, I then spent 4 hours trying to find a bump proof cylinder. The only thing i could get locally is a Garrison mul-t-lock. This has slits at the ends to break off and resist snapping.( I can see what will happen; the half of the lock left is recessed in the door, and still needs a key to turn.

What exactly does snap on an unprotected lock? this bit edited by me. just alittle to much info on snapping and pulling for the open forum as it is classed as by pass tech. quicklocks


I am thinking of ordering a Chubb m3 to replace the garrison, and using the garrison in the back door but the M3 doesn't have these snap lines, although it is more bump proof than the garrison. Is the chubb pull protected? Is the stub cylinder of the garrison pull proof?


The problem is leaving the house empty in the daytime: at night, simply putting the key on the inside and turning 90degrees makes any lock bumpproof, as the key wont go in fully.


* I imagine gangs turning up knocking on doors at 2:00pm, offering upvc gutters if you answer, and bumping your lock you dont, then into the white van and off up the motorway. Now bumping has been in the news, I bet even schoolkids are bumping locks in their dinner hour.

BTW I do have an alarm, I would like a pair of attack dogs in the house as a backup, but our old spaniel wouldn't get on with them

[CPLP]

There are lots of bump proof locks, if you saw the video you must have seen lots of them:wink:

[Jlo]

Hi,

I beleive the Chubb M3 is bump proof as it is the same lock as the 'Medeco' locks used in Americal and are Biaxial with sidebars. the pins need to be picked at rotated to the correct angle for sidebar to engauge so am sure these could not be bumped.

As for snapping I don't know.

Other Bump proof locks, Abloy cylinders and Evva cylinders which you can find on the web to buy if you look.

I am moving house shortly once we finally exchange contracts (Wont hold my breath) and plan to replace the yale rim cylinder with Chubb rim cylinder with BS Lock (AVA 10 disk system) which I know can't be bumped and the back door I am ordering a chubb M3 as well.

Remember the good old 5 lever BS locks can't be bumped (Only opened if you have a cutain 2 in 1 pick and unless you are lock smith very hard to get hold off) but guess that is no use to you as you are on UVPC.

Good luck.

Jlo

[illusion]

You could IN THEORY bump a Medeco, but you would need a lot of blanks to cover every combination pin rotation.

The snap to secure won't be secure for long I don't think, but it's better than nothing.

[quicklocks]

this thread is close to the mark as to bypass technques so lets avoid telling how to snap and pull cylinders and this thread will stay open.
im enjoying the descion on how to stop or reduce the chances of it happening.
cheers all

[wgl]

Maybe this will help you find a bumpproof lock:
Toool bumping high security locks --- review

Don't know about UPCV doors and if those locks work on them though.

wiggle

[NKT]

I saw two different systems at the Telford show last week.

One is a drilled and tapped square that sits inside the door handle and supports the lock barrel, preventing snapping, and, if it does get snapped, the barrel cannot be removed without removing the entire door handle, which certainly would slow things down.

The second was a slit and a special plastic washer which sits in the second or third pin location. It is a carefully made weak point, so that a snapper will remove the front of the lock, but then there is a recessed lock with three or four pins still protecting the door, and providing clear evidence of the attack.

The best way, probably, is to buy/have a locksmith fit a high security BS Euro escutcheon, which will hinder picking, and prevent snapping, pulling and other brute force attacks on the lock. Combine that with a good euro with a non-standard keyway, and no-one will have a bumpkey unless they are specifically targeting you.

[facade]

Thanks guys.

First, sorry about my original post. I don't want to break into someone elses house, just stop people breaking into mine. The speed and simplicity of bumping is frightening, a child could do it; I doubt if someone could make a mechanical attack (except pulling) without a nosy neighbour spotting it.

I have seen the info from Toool, and the reviews, so ideally, the M&C Antiklop is the one to go for; reasonable price, trap pins, and no-one else round here has one, so hopefully an opportunist will go next door with his keys.

But, typing any of those locks into altavista, or google doesn't lead me to any English language suppliers. I am happy to order from Europe, using a credit card, if anyone knows of a good suppliers web site.

I can special order an Abloy, but at £100+ it seems a bit too much. If someone smashes the door in, or goes through the glass, at least I have evidence for the insurance claim.

The only security euro cylinder I can find on sale in the UK is the Chubb M3/medeco. Yale don't seem to do anything secure.

[toomush2drink]

Ask your local locksmith to fit a restricted key section, this way nobody can get the keys to make into a bump key.If its fitted right it will be snap resistant especially if fitted with one of the new aftermarket snapp protecters like keyprint sell.The evva dps or even the gpi system will do the job more than adequately.

[Rockford]

Personally, I think you're being a little paranoid about the bumping - I doubt any crim is going to stand in front of your door, trying to bump your lock, when he can jemmy or smash his way in.

If there has been a spate of such attacks in your area, then I have to agree with Toomush - a restricted key section is a better option (and cheaper) than buying an abloy or special order version.

BTW, leaving your key in the lock at night is not as secure as you may think !.

[facade]

Yes I'm paranoid, but that doesn't change the problem.
Bumping is so easy, with the publicity it is getting now I see it potentially as a big problem. A kid could do it on their way home from school.
I agree that a restricted key lock, that is uncommon, would give fair security, because they would move on to a lock they have a key for.
(You can get restricted keys simply by buying the same lock if enough people fit them; not a large outlay if you can get into 10 houses.)
I don't want to leave the key in,
I'm happy with the mul-t-lock until I can get an m3 or a M&C antiklop.

Thanks all.

[pinky]

happy with a mul t lock, that incidently also easily bumps open !
if you want better security on a euro cylinder then fit a bolt together scandanavian cylinder, this wont snap, buy the banham version and this wont bump either. but this will severly cost you.

the chubb M3 is also overcome by destructive methods of entry, so again its not 100% secure.
what ever method you choose, it will be beatable in some way or other.

In every crime report listed in my region, no break in has been picked or bumped open, any bypass methods used have been destructive ones, glass removed, door panels removed and even door and window frames removed, but no picking or bumping.

how good are your frames, is your glass wire strengthened ? what measures do you got to , to try and keep a thief out ? i bet in a thiefs mind you have far easier points of access than your locks.

[wgl]

happy with a mul t lock, that incidently also easily bumps open !
if you want better security on a euro cylinder then fit a bolt together scandanavian cylinder, this wont snap, buy the banham version and this wont bump either. but this will severly cost you.

the chubb M3 is also overcome by destructive methods of entry, so again its not 100% secure.
what ever method you choose, it will be beatable in some way or other.

In every crime report listed in my region, no break in has been picked or bumped open, any bypass methods used have been destructive ones, glass removed, door panels removed and even door and window frames removed, but no picking or bumping.

how good are your frames, is your glass wire strengthened ? what measures do you got to , to try and keep a thief out ? i bet in a thiefs mind you have far easier points of access than your locks.

Remember that facade is not paranoid about thiefs in generally, he surely is aware that even with a BS cylinder the home is not secured..
He's only talking about the simplicity of bumping and the potential danger in exactly THAT point. Every school kid could break in unnoticed, maybe just out of curiosity.. It takes more to throw in a window, bring a glass cutter or drill the lock, you know..

To facade: Yes, i guess your right, you are rather secured of oppurtunity-taking kids by installing an uncommon lock (=uncommon keyway) until you get a bump proof cylinder in there. I'm not that paranoid, by the way, but i can understand your position.

Yours,

wiggle

[Rockford]

Must be some rich kids around your area, able to afford to buy numerous locks in order to get the correct pin heights for each type of lock on the market. Anyway, you'd be able to hear them coming - with the jingling of all the keys under their jackets .

Seriously, you'd be better saving your money and putting it towards a new sturdy wooden door and frame, which can then be secured with some decent mortice locks. Very bump proof!

[Jlo]

Hi Pinky,

Are Banham 6 pin cylinders bump proof then? What makes them bump proof? Have they a side bar mechinism?

Does not say anything on there website.

I know they resist snapping as they have security collar to prevent this?

Interesting thread this. Thanks for your advice.

Cheers

Jlo