Newbie - Advice required for upgrades to Home Locks (UK)

[MattH]

Hi..

By a strange twisting path I have ended up here.. I am not a lockpicker/nor locksmith, though my general knowlegde seems to have blossomed from reading this site

From a link in a ford forum to the Tool video shocked me at the simplicity of "Bumping". Even more so when I looked at my rear upvc doors both with Euro cylinders

Further googling brought up another trick as reported by the Daily Mail a while ago. So started my investigation into replacing my cylinder locks and this snowballed into looking at my locks on the front door as well.

More googling looking at specific locks like the Chubb and ingersolls (to the latest BS 2004 standard) eventually returned links to here....

So I have been doing alot of reading in the last few days and there is 3 part s to any changes to my home security.

1. Nightlatch - Currently ERA basic replacement with push button deadlock
2. Mortice - ERA 5 level mortice.. no idea what model it actually is.
3. Euro Cylinder - 2 doors both by Anglian Windows using Gege cylinders.

After my initial hunting I have already ordered a pair of Mul-t-lock Break Secure Euro Cylinders.. which now seem to be easy to bump and pick

But at the same time it would seem the tougher options can also be circumnavigated quite easily.

Is it worth therefore using Break Secure which though easy to bump and pick will stand up to some abuse (and as it seems most crime usually involves a brute force entry rather than skill) or should I be looking at abloy/chubb M3/others for better security but then risk them easily being broken ? Are there any other all round performer which would solve all the problems

As a aside can anyone recommend where I could get abloy if I so desired in the UK as a google brings up a few links but no real information on prices etc etc.

Onto the Mortice locks... should I be considering changing my current 5 level? Has anything changed that would benefit me replacing it ? I presume the new BS 2004 standard basically just means the lock has increased in lenght to 20mm ? Suggestions please if a particular brand/lock is a good allrounder.

Lastly is the front door nightlatch. The door itself is a wooden door with metal clad front/back. The ERA lock has been there since the house was built (its a new build house of about 5 years old).

Some people here have commented that spending alot on a lock is not worth while. It may bring more unwanted attention than desired, and a lock is only as good as the door its fixed to.

I definitely want a nightlatch which has a lockable dealock on the inside and it should be BS 2004 standard if just to keep the insurance companies happy.

I had been looking at the ERA BS :

http://www.era-security.com/nightlatch_chain.html

Ingersoll London Line SC100 :

http://www.ingersolllocks.co.uk/pdf/Londonline.pdf

and the Chubb :

http://www.chubblocks.co.uk/new4l67e_co ... frame.html

The ERA is cheapest.. with ingersoll leading the price field. From a purely asthetic look I love the Banham L2000 which has brought forth no information other than that listed on their website. Anyone have any idea on price

http://www.banham.com/Locks%20Slideshow.htm

Which would you suggest ? Any others to look at.. what offers top performance and reliability ?

Lastly can anyone suggest a locksmith for the Kent area. Would a locksmith be happy to only fit my locks if I was able to supply them myself ? (for example you can get the London Line for £116 delivered whereas one company quoted £165 for the lock plus the fitting...)

Sorry for the long post.. appreciate any help/advice you can give..

Cheers

Matt

[MattH]

Hmm I cannot seem to edit the above.. so apologies for the typos

I have found one website which lists the Chubb M3 cylinders for sale with prices. Not had much luck with the EvvA 3ks either.

Anyone got any good suppliers who sell to the public ?

Thanks

Matt

[p1ckf1sh]

I cannot really help you out a lot, as I am not too familiar with nightlatch and mortice stuff. Regarding eurocylinder my general suggestion is usually an EVVA 3KS, we have/had three of those in different places and I am very convinced of their quality and the modular design. Regarding drill/pull protection I have one of these handle plates mounted:

The chamber in front encloses the front of the europrofile cylinder and prevents drilling into the lock shell. The middle plate with the slot is rotating easily and makes it hard to drill into plug. Same goes for pulling, first you need to open the slot up wide enough to get the screw in and then you need to get enough torque on it to pull out the steel plate as well. But I have been told that these are uncommon or even unknown in the UK and that UPVC doors usually will not hold up to these kinds of plates. Some locksmith knowledgeable in UPVC might elaborate.

One more thing to keep in mind while you are improving you security... here in Germany only about 5% of all burglaries actually use the main door as point of entry. So it is good you are securing the doors all around, but be aware that a good amount of entrys are done by smashing a window. That's about as low-tech a entry can get, but it is still very common.

[zeke79]

Shrub???? Where are you mate?? All I can say is, lever locks cannot be bumped so your ERA is golden there. It may however be easily picked with a 2 in 1 pick or a curtain pick. I am in the process of learning this stuff right now if my dang workload ever decreases these days.

I have some capital set back at this point for some good UK tools to do my research so hopefully in the coming year or two after many hours of practice I can be better informed to answer some of the questions myself.

[taylorgdl]

I've not read this thread fully, 'cos its late, and I'm about to go to bed.

One thing that did catch my eye, the Era 5 lever mortice lock.

Has it got a British Standard kitemark on the faceplate (shiney brass or nickle plate on the edge of the door)?

If so, you CANNOT use a two in one pick to open it, it cannot be bumped, or anything else like that.

Curtain picks or a decoder will do, nothing less.

So what you are saying is, you've got a uPVC back and/or side doors, and a mortice and night latch on the front door.

I'd leave the mortice, upgrade the nightlatch to one with an anti-shim (yale X series possibly) and change the Euro's to the Mul-t-lock's with anti snap. They are not that easy to pick, or bump, you still have to get hold of the blanks, and cut them correctly.

There is probably more to you post, but I'll re-read it tomorrow.

Let's face it, you're insurrance is covered, so if someone gets in you can get things replaced, and if its irreplaceable, get a decent safe (and bolt it down!).

G.

[zeke79]

Thanks taylorgdl. That is the response we were looking for!

[Cherokee]

Matt,
I would reccomend either the Ingersoll or the Chubb that you linked, both companies have been around for a long while and both have excellent reputations

As for Abloy's try the old faithfull yellow pages look under locksmiths any that are Abloy agent's usualy have the Abloy logo as part of their advertising - Excellent locks by the way

If your doors are uPVC with decent well fitted multi point locking, a good named profile cylnider (Gege, Multi lock, Chubb Biaxal etc) assembled from a locksmith, with the advantage of being keyed alike if you wish, are more than acceptable for an average dwelling.

This will also satisfy all insurance copmpanies requirements for door security. As Pickfish also said not all break in's come via the door so check on your ground floor window locks and make sure ladders etc are locked away or locked imobile,

Hope this helps?


Regards,
Brian

[Shrub]

If you can get one on try a letterbox guard,

The mortice will be ok to the general crim and anybody walking round with bump keys will not have the MTL ones with them,

Look at things like do you leave the keys in the lock, are all accesable windows locked when you leave the house,

Other than that its pretty much been covered,

Anything that has the British Standard kitemark should be ok for your insurance and as said make sure the latch isnt slippable this means that once locked the latch cant be pushed in,

As P1ckf1sh said the handles that cover part of the cylinder can help as well,

[DaveAG]

Bear in mind the physical security of the door as well

I fitted a cat-flap to our back door last weekend and it shocked me how easy it was to cut through the door.

A good lock ensures that the insurance company cannot turn around and say "what break in"

[MattH]

Thanks for the advice...

Having checked a bit more I have a ERA 5 lever mortice in the front door (1998 BS)

My other motice locked door to the garage has a Legge. So I thought I would replace both to (2004 BS) get them from the same firm so I can have them keyed together.

My choice here was for the Chubb 3g114 (and matching sash lock). Of course the distance from the frame to the key hole does not pair up acorss the different makes. The chubb sash lock is within 3m of the legge so that not much of a problem.

The Era is 44m and the chubb can be either 40 or 53. If I choose the 40 then the hole in the door gets slighly wider and nearer the edge (but the depth of the mortice stays the same). If I go for the 53 everything increases.

Bit concerned that if this is done the escherons will not cover the whole hole and will look a bit messy. Another option is to go all Legge. Advice please I have read here that the Chubbs are excellent quality.. is it much of stepdown to Legge or ERA ? (Cost wise theres almost nothing in it between all 3 - bought 3 pounds between era an legge, and another 3 to the chubb so its not a issue)

For the Nightlatch I will go with the Ingersoll London Line as it can be got quite a bit below its retail price at the moment.. and its a nice looking lock as well as its spec

I did consider the london line hook euro mortice. But for what it did (though it would be nice to keyin the 2 locks together) for the money it seemed a lot extra over the 5 levers which seem to do a very good job. (And I am not sure whether it using the interactive mul-t-lock cylinder makes it more prone to bumping as it was mentioned in the toool document.)

Lastly I found a supplier of the Abloy protec cat 5 euro cylinders.. currently waiting for a quote to see how bad the damage is for them ! If its not too hoorendous I will be sorting out my parents and inlaws front doors as well....

Cheers

Matt

[MattH]

Oh as a aside.. my front door is a nice wood with metal front and back (if you have seen any recent build houses from wimpey/laing you will know what I mean) which also have bolts top and bottom for when you are asleep.

The rear upvc doors are from anglian windows.. once is a single door, the other a french opening style. A intruder could just go through the couble glazing but I would expect that would be very noisy and the monitored alarm would I hope spring into action.

I guess as has been mentioned the act of implementing these locks is more for the insurance firms benefit I suppose, but if I'm going to do a job I might as well use the best tools I can afford without breaking the bank

Matt

[Jlo]

Hi Math,

Yes I agree with the others. In the UK a 5 lever BS 3621 lock will provide excellent protection as long as the door is strong. Can only be opened by curtain picks and those are very expensive and can only be bought if you are a locksmith, thus the average low life would have no chance with these.

I ended up with the Yale XB1 BS rim lock and era 5 lever mortice lock.

I think having a good rimlock shows that you are upto date with security and put a burglar off when they see the antidrill plate etc on the outer rimcylinder. Also its heavily armoured and has fixings that help prevent it being twisted. I am sure this is the same for the Era BS rim lock and the London lines and Chubb BS locks.

Of couse the other way of thinking is people see it and think you must have somthing worth nicking!

Let us know what you end up getting?

Cheers

Jlo

[xorb]

I had the rare oportunity to disassemble one of these break secure locks the other day. Although complex, and the plugs are the same length with like an added 'axle' for length, the actual pin design wasn't what i had expected.

7 Pin set up exhibits:

-5 Standard driver pins, 2 (fairly poor) spools.
-6 Standard top pins, 1 mushroom anti-drill all singing all dancing top pin.

I say fairly poor spool cos there realy was hardly any lip on these drivers, and another thing i realised was that the pins stick in the drill 'oles. no wonder they can be bumped.

Now take Era cylinders they have 4 anti pick spool with a heavy lip.

Surely mul-t-lock could do with adding better and more anti pick pins to these cylinders???

This was based on a Garrison.

[xorb]

I had the rare oportunity to disassemble one of these break secure locks the other day. Although complex, and the plugs are the same length with like an added 'axle' for length, the actual pin design wasn't what i had expected.

7 Pin set up exhibits:

-5 Standard driver pins, 2 (fairly poor) spools.
-6 Standard top pins, 1 mushroom anti-drill all singing all dancing top pin.

I say fairly poor spool cos there realy was hardly any lip on these drivers, and another thing i realised was that the top pins stick in the drill 'oles. no wonder they can be bumped.

Now take Era cylinders they have 4 anti pick spool with a heavy lip.

Surely mul-t-lock could do with adding better and more anti pick pins to these cylinders???

This was based on a Garrison.

[NKT]

Wow, twice in one day?