UK Ingersol Padlocks - Anyone any pictures of keys?

[Engineer]

I have a couple of Ingersoll padlocks that date to probably the 1960s, but I don't have keys for them.

Does anyone know if I can get the blanks still? They are NOT the same keyway as the modern ones:



Mine have more than grooves, they are actually a very pronounced "\/\/" shape. Anyone any experience of impressioning them either? I've never done this type of key before.

[Squelchtone]

Hi Engineer,

Check out the last photo in this breakdown, is your keyway like that? and is your lock the commercial style with the swivel dust cover, or do you have a military padlock like mine?

http://nynex.s5.com/TOOOL-US-Boston/locks/Ingersoll%20Miracle/

Squelchtone

[Engineer]

That has rattled my cage a bit Squelchtone - Both of mine are VERY similar to the one you linked to. I never realised these were Military locks in the U.S.

Neither of mine has dust covers. One is a solid body with the shroud for the shackle, while the other is a laminated body, but no shackle shroud. I'd love to make keys for them, but looking at those pictures, it looks like I would have my work cut out for me with them.

I'm impressed you know of them, Ingersoll are so little-known outside of the UK it seems. You did really well getting one of them. My Dad got them for me when I was kid as they were no use without a key. He told me they were £100 to buy, about a month's wages for a typical man back then. I believe they had been used on the factory gates until the keys went missing.

Very impressive bit of metal aren't they? I had the coolest paperweight as a kid... Seriously, I used mine to keep all my school notes held down safely from the dogs, etc.!

[Squelchtone]

I'm impressed you know of them, Ingersoll are so little-known outside of the UK it seems. You did really well getting one of them. My Dad got them for me when I was kid as they were no use without a key.

pictures please!

For those of us who are US military padlock junkies, we are very well aware of the design contributions Ingersoll made to the development and furthering of US military padlocks, especially the Sargent and Greenleaf padlocks of the 1970's. I also have an Ingersoll AVA padlock, but unfortunately no key. n2oah has or had one with key, maybe he'll share some pictures with us if he reads this.

Here's something nice that you may have not seen in a while:
http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=43026

And here's something you may have never seen before, it's a early 1970's Sargent and Greenleaf padlock factory cutaway with Ingersoll 10 lever mechanism, before S&G started to use Medeco cylinders in their padlocks. (I don't own this lock, I wish!, it was on ebay a few months ago and sold for several hundred dollars) They polished the plates so well it looks like a solid padlock from the exterior.
http://nynex.s5.com/TOOOL-US-Boston/locks/SargentGreenleaf/s_and_g_cutaway.JPG

If you want better pics of the keys on my padlock, I'll take some or we can arrange shipping you a spare key. Take some pics of your keyway and lock and post them!

Thanks
Squelchtone

p.s. January 6, 2009: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0329609719

[Engineer]

That's wonderful Squelchtone! I was going to take a couple of pictures to go with the other lockie ones I took last night (and I'll be posting over the next few days to the group), but only had one of my Ingersolls to hand.

I put my camera down on the table and while I mwas over the other side of the room, I saw it fall over and tumble off the table for no reason at all. I wasn't in time to catch it and it's killed my camera. I tried it out last night and it's well and truly dead. Thankfully it was only my old camera and just this Christmas I got a stunning new one! I'm still working through the manual as I've not had much time since Christmas, but I'm not forgetting and will post pictures of mine as soon as I can.

Glad to have found someone else who appreciates solid engineering! that is the one thing that strikes you about Ingersolls, they are substantial blocks of steel...

[raimundo]

When your camera fell it may have caused the battery to bump away from the contacts, try replacing the batteries, it may just work.

[Engineer]

Raimundo - Thank you for the advice, I appreciate it.

Sadly I tried replacing the batteries with new ones and it's completely dead. That usually means a power supply problem, but even powering it from a PSU instead of batteries didn't help. I'll have to see if I can get inside the camera to see what's happened. Not looking hopeful though...

[greyman]

You have the older style Ingersoll keyway. I don't know when they changed over to the newer style, with a slightly more curvey key. I believe that the key codes are all registered cetrally by Ingersoll (at least in the UK) and you would not be able to get blanks unless you were an affiliated locksmith. Come to think of it, maybe Ingersoll exercises central control over all the cut keys? That wouldn't surprise me.

As for impressioning - it may be possible - there are no false notches in the levers and only 4 depths of cut, independent from side to side, but as I said before, I don't think you'll find blanks.

[mhole]

Ingersoll no longer really exists as a company, they're just a name now, owned by one of the big two. The patent on their keyways is long expired, and you can get the blanks freely from SKS and Davenport Burgess, but I don't know where you'd find the older style blanks.

I remember hearing that somebody acquired the database for cutting keys by code, but it's closely guarded, and totally opaque

Ingersoll certainly no longer do the keys by code or control duplication.

[raimundo]

Finding keyblanks that are no longer made,

find a locksmiths shop with an extensive keyblank collection, and if possible a shop that has been in the same location for many years,

The really old blanks will be on the highest pegs, and probaby only the older locksmiths will recognize the keyway when they see it.

This is true for all old, antique locks, the keys are still around in some shop that has stuff from the old days. You have to hunt lockshops like they were antique stores. That is how I found blanks for some old lever padlocks.

The darker and dingier the shop, the more likely the old stuff will be there underneath all the modern stuff. If the place is clean an new looking, just go on by, they don't keep the old stuff around.

[mhole]

Just to check - are you 100% certain it isn't an A M or S profile?

There is another ingersol blank I've seen on occasion, which a similar head shape but a longer profiled section. I'll see if I can get you a picture.

[aussielocky]

There are also M & W profiles ..

[mhole]

True dat...

Here's the one I was thinking of, next to an S section for size comparison. It's a JMA ING-D.

[Engineer]

Finally I've got through enough of the manual for my new camera to get to the section that will actually let me take some pictures at last. So here are my two:









The links for the full-sized pictures (Warning - Large!) are:

Download LP101 - Ingersoll Pair - Isometric - 3648 x 2736.jpg

Download LP101 - Ingersoll Pair - Front - 3648 x 2736.jpg

Download LP101 - Ingersoll Pair - Top - 3648 x 2736.jpg

Download LP101 - Ingersoll Pair - Underneath - 3648 x 2736.jpg

A startling thing to show up because of the close-up photography, is the numbers and letters that the factory who originally owned them has marked on them. They show up much clearer in the pictures than I can see them in real life. You don't think the codes on them could be the codes for the keys do you? The laminated one appears to say "...TW 5-5-53" while the Impregnable appears to say "43M 5032". If those could lead to actually making keys for these, that would be wonderful after all these years. Does anyone know anything about those codes at all please?

I apologise for them looking tatty, but they have actually been cleaned up - Twice! They were used on the factory gates of a large company that closed down in the 1980s, so have been out in all weathers... For years I thought the green was mildew, moss or mould, but it won't clean off normally. Then I rememebred...the factory gates were painted green at one stage, so it appears to be green paint that got on the locks and was wiped off with a rag before it dried. Some paint was left behind, ingrained in the surface of the steel. What looks a bit like a crack in the top of the Impregnable in the second picture is just a mark though.

[Scott_93]

Heres the blanks I have from the shop;
JMA ING A
JMA ING S
JMA ING W
HD IG5 - Has "security procedures apply when duplicating"
SILCA ING6

And of course you have the Military keyways plus a few custom made keyways out there.

Scott.