euro

[cred]

hi guys,
went to a job today they wanted the back door (upvc) opened as they had no keys,so as they need a new lock i drilled it turned the plug but it just kept turning without unlocking,any ideas why it wouldnt open?.
ended opening it from the inside,but it is bugging me why it would not unlock after drilling.
thanx guys
ray

[pinky]

had you put a pick in to keyway and pushed follower back taking priority on your side of door , it would probably have turned cam and worked fine

[PickPick]

You probably didn't activate the coupling. Happens sometimes during picking as well. There's this funy little mechanism sitting in the cam and connecting it to whatever end of a lock has a key inside. If there's no key inserted on your side, it might be connected either to the other side or in some cases to neither side. Try sticking a wire into the keyway to tip it or a key with the active part removed.

[cred]

thanx,pinky do you mean insert the pick before or after drilling
thanx
ray

[toomush2drink]

This hapenswhen a key is in the other side too so you have to use a pick or a sweeper bristle as i prefer to take control of the cam your side after picking on drilling.

[EvoRed]

Happened to me too a while ago Cred so you're not alone!

You just need to push a pick to the back of the plug so the plug on your side pushes the follower on your side into the cam to operate it rather than the follower on the other side operating it.

[cred]

thanx guys, so i push the pick to the back of the lock remove it then turn again to unlock
ray

[acl]

Youll probably need to keep that pick pushed in as you turn.

[EvoRed]

Cred,

Take a euro apart and you'll see exactly how it operates, it's very simple really.

Basically if the missing key on your job was used on the inside of the door lock last then the inside plug would be operating the cam until a key was inserted on the outside, in which case the end of the key would push the follower on that side, allowing this side to now operate the cam.

All you probably needed to do was stick a pick to the back of the plug, which would have acted as the end of the key, so the plug you drilled was then controlling the cam. So simple when you know how but, like I said, I got caught out once with that too!

That's what it's all about, experience and learning, often the hard way, and there's plenty more of that to come!

[cred]

thanx i new i could count on you all to share your knowlage,with that i have more of an idea now, we all live and learn
thanx

[PickPick]

If you want to get an even better idea, take a look at the cam the next time you disassemble a euro cylinder, there're several designs out there, even some that can act as an additional locking element. Or ones that allow you to insert a key when there's already one inserted on the other side.

[sledge-it]

Just as an aside to what pick pick has said. How do you get the lock to engage if a key IS still in the other side of the lock? (I,m talking about the euro,s that will only accept one key)

[PickPick]

If you're lucky, the key is inserted but not tilted. Then you can use a wire or a keyblank to apply pressure to the coupling and push back the other key. If you're not lucky, you can try to pick your side, turn it, reach through the keyway with a wire or pick and try to turn the cam until the key inside is not tilted anymore so that you can push. I never had to do this but some friends told me it works. But it's no fun at all.
And just for the sake of completeness, if the hole for the keyring on the key handle is off center and a bulky keyring is attached to it, you can sometimes get the key to 'straighten up' by continous Multipick vibration. But continous Multipick use is not very healthy for most locks.

[sledge-it]

thanks pick pick. I did wonder if it was possible!

[pinky]

you can also remove the internal key through the lettebox, with the letterbox kit, easier when fitted with mini wire free cctv system.