Reccomend me a difficult pin tumbler lock.

[Erdnaseuk]

hey there all
I want to buy a new Pin tumbler lock (as well as a Dimple and a 5 lever lock, but thats a different story).
At the moment I have one cheap ERA pin tumbler lock, a pin tumblers with a decent finish and a padlock with a small keyway (cylinder is less than 1cm in diameter). I am confident with Hi/low combinations and security pins etc. Getting a bit bored of what I have at home and looking for a new challenge.
I have scouted the forums and the only thing I can come up with at the moment is a ABUS or Masterlock. Are these any good?

[Squelchtone]

hey there all
I want to buy a new Pin tumbler lock (as well as a Dimple and a 5 lever lock, but thats a different story).
At the moment I have one cheap ERA pin tumbler lock, a pin tumblers with a decent finish and a padlock with a small keyway (cylinder is less than 1cm in diameter). I am confident with Hi/low combinations and security pins etc. Getting a bit bored of what I have at home and looking for a new challenge.
I have scouted the forums and the only thing I can come up with at the moment is a ABUS or Masterlock. Are these any good?

ABUS is very good and will provide hours of medium to difficult challenge, if you mean Masterlock as in the American company Master Lock, it depends on the models availble where you are, if you can buy a Model 532 or a ProSeries 6121, or a TSR body Model 930 they all have spool pins and are fun to pick. The Abus would still be more difficult than the Masters.

Do you have any Yale rim cylinders? The Y1 keyway, combined with some spool pins can be very tricky to pick.

I'm sure fellow Brits will give you replies listing locks I'm probably not aware of.

happy picking,
Squelchtone

[Erdnaseuk]

thanks for the reply.
Yes I did mean the american company (have seen alot of masterlock padlocks over here).
I have yale type Rim cylinders but not actual YALE branded. After a quick google the rim cylinders I have are the Y1 keyway. I have picked them with a Long pin at the front, alternating hi/lo combos, two spool pins and with springs of differnt lenghts (for differnce in binding presurre). One of them has an interesting quirk which I assumed was a pick resistant feature - but the popular opinion is its a defect ATM. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=57196.

Looks likeI need me an ABUS lock then

[Erdnaseuk]

So is this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/ABUS-70IB-AQUAS ... words=abus
a good Difficult ABUS lock?

[fgarci03]

Not absolutelly sure, but I guess it has spools. ABUS is also know for the quality of the locks, so expect tight tolerances!

[bembel]

Abus has some kind of rating system, you can find it on the package. It says 5/10 which means medium security. There should be spool pins.
I'd say it's an average padlock. Maybe a good start into Abus locks.

[Erdnaseuk]

Thanks for the tips about the rating system! I will get a 5-8/10 and a 10/10. That should keep me occupied for a while

[bembel]

Please note: Nobody knows exactly what this rating system is based on. I think it rates the whole lock, not only manipulation protection. It might also be a marketing thing. But the higher the better.

[seb0704]

Hello

You can try a Tesa T5.

Regards

[ARF-GEF]

I think abus considers physical resistance more than picking security with their rating. Which is very reasonable in real life circumstances

[YouLuckyFox]

The ABUS have very tight tolerances (in my opinion.) I favor them for impressioning practice, specifically because they can be purchased with different keyways, they are easily repinned, and they are relatively affordable. I have bought several of the 83 series and each model has had a 5 pin configuration with an additional 6th pin chamber - all driver pins being spools.

[Erdnaseuk]

Thanks for the specifc lock reccomendations
After looking on google at the ABUS rating it seemed apparted alot of the rating is to do with the whole lock and not a pick resistant rating. This chart refers to bike locks but it helped me out. thought I should link it for others
http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/images/prod ... _large.jpg

[seb0704]

Hello

I agree and don't with people thinking that Abus C83 easy to pick. This lock exists in 6 depths and 9 depths. The 6 depths is quite easy to pick. The 9 depths has 2 generation. Old generation has normal and mushroms pins (for me medium security). The new generation has different antipicking drivers (5 differents): mushroms-serrated...There is no normal driver. I find this lock not so easy to pick.
I agree with Youluckyfox. If drivers are designed against picking the pins are not really designed against impressionning even if there is a little slot on some pin size(don't know the word in english).
Regards

[YouLuckyFox]

Which is very reasonable in real life circumstances

Agreed, as I am more concerned that a padlock will be forced than picked when I am using it for securing something.

@seb0704:
I actually was referring to the ABUS 83 padlock. From my understanding, the ABUS C83 (though I can find no information on it from ABUS' website) is much more formidable. My apologies for not making myself clearer. I did find that ABUS actually offers some pretty gnarly locks, though: http://www.abus.com/eng/Security-at-Home/Locking-systems/Mechanical-locking-systems/System-Integral2
Welcome to the forum, as I see you are relatively new (as am I!)

[ARF-GEF]

Yeah it can be confused.
Just to make it clear: there is an ABUS 83/.. (.. can be for example 45 50 55 80, all different padlocks) line of padlocks, and there is an euro profile cylinder called Abus C83 whose insides you can see at this wonderful site:
http://grevenitz.com/abus-c83-profilzylinder/
Keep in mind that this is the old pinning.

Another site with more pics and a bit of description:
http://wiki.koksa.org/Abus_C83

About the 83 series of padlocks, the fantastic lockwiki provides some insights:
http://lockwiki.com/index.php/ABUS_83

Important thing for impressioning: due to the nature of impressioning attacks the spooled and mushroomed driver pins do not make any difference.
(the "full" blank forces every pin back maximally into the housing)
But, when the key pins are sneaky (like torpedo shaped) that can actually make impressioning impossible. So choose your locks accordingly