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info on these picks and also what this site is like

European hardware -lever locks, profile cylinders specific for European locks. European lock picks and European locks.

info on these picks and also what this site is like

Postby skedone » 24 Jul 2005 8:41

hi

im in the uk can anyone tell me if this site will ship stuff to uk ok and if these picks are okay in euro keyways


here is link http://www.lockpicks.com/index.asp?Page ... &ProdID=32


also are only euro pick any good in uk key ways or is it just a case of making it a bit harder with non euro keyways
skedone
 
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Postby Keyring » 24 Jul 2005 9:30

Good grief! Looks like something to sell to the tourists. In my very humble opinion you do better with a small set including a small hook, and maybe one rake. I mean, are you going to pick these locks open, or saw them open?
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Postby SFGOON » 24 Jul 2005 13:32

I own that exact set and they are my favorite picks. They're called "profile" or "rocker" picks and are not operated by raking. They take advantage of a design flaw in most pin tumbler systems called MACS (Maximum Adjacent Cut Specification) that limits the height difference that two adjacent pins can have. You insert the pick fully into the keyway, and jiggle it up and down GENTLY while "pulsing" your tension wrench. If the lock doesn't open in a minute or so you try another pick. These tools will nullify the effects of security pins such as spools and mushrooms, but are limited to fairly open, non-paprcentric keyways.

That being said, the good old fashioned hooks and rakes are the best way to go for new folks, as these picks won't work on 10% of key schemes. Learn the basics first, and then go for the gusto.
"Reverse the obvious and the truth will present itself." - Carl Jung
SFGOON
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Postby skedone » 24 Jul 2005 16:12

ta for info i should have said i allready have a nice sothard set from devonlocks for euro keyways it was just as summit diff but need to know if they okay in uk?
skedone
 
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Location: essex england

Postby toomush2drink » 24 Jul 2005 16:28

I have a similar set and they can work on uk locks but some of our locks can have fairly restricted keyways for this type of pick.
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Postby oaksy » 25 Jul 2005 6:59

I would start with a small basic set you can get them in the UK from
http://www.devonlocks.com/
and also...
http://www.locksmith-tools.co.uk/index.html

Make sure you order Slimline one...
Regards
Oaksy :wink:
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Postby Keyring » 25 Jul 2005 7:21

They take advantage of a design flaw in most pin tumbler systems called MACS (Maximum Adjacent Cut Specification) that limits the height difference that two adjacent pins can have.
I understand what you're saying, but I don't think it stands up to mathematical analysis. Without spending all day on the assumptions, I would estimate that these picks are equivalent to trying about 250 keys. Which just isn't enough. When you think about it all those 'carefully' contured shapes can only be effective as a key (ie you're not scrubbing), when they are pretty much all the way in, else they aren't lifting the back pin. If they have been 'scientifically' contured then they must also assume a pin pitch, which will in practise very from lock to lock. If you are going to use these as artificial keys, then you are going to have to apply torque once for each possible simulated pin combination, and then release it. And you would have to do this some hundreds of times. I bet that successful user aren't doing this.

I would bet that the reason they actually work is that they are unwittingly being used (quite gently too) as rakes during the insertion process, and then a little more when moved up and down.

Still, I haven't tried them, so this is only theory, so feel free to shoot me down in flames.
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Postby toomush2drink » 25 Jul 2005 7:53

To use these you apply tension as per normal lockpicking and move the pick up and down or a figure of 8 movement in and out of the lock if possible. Some locks fall open with the right pick as the pick resembles the key closley but not all open this easily. Also to work through all the picks on both sides can take a long time so manual picking can be quicker. I only use mine as another option when other techniques arent getting the results, its just another tool in my armoury so to say.
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Postby skedone » 25 Jul 2005 12:16

thanks toomush2drink

thats what i wanted to know as i allready stated i have a nice set from devon locks allready have had diff sets for about a year just wanted to add to my arsnal .
also does anyone know what that site is like for sales to the uk or know a uk supplier with as wide a selection ?
skedone
 
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Location: essex england

Postby Keyring » 25 Jul 2005 12:36

Actually you might try http://www.multipick-service.com/en/start_en.htm. Being in Europe, in theory you should save a customs examination. May be slightly more expensive, but if customs check the USA delivery you be paying import duty (22%?) plus VAT (17.5%) anyway.
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Postby skedone » 25 Jul 2005 14:29

ta for that one i do have that link but there are in germany (well i thought they were so still same thing as other site )
skedone
 
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