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Locksmith or joiner?

European hardware -lever locks, profile cylinders specific for European locks. European lock picks and European locks.

Locksmith or joiner?

Postby chrisjc33 » 7 Oct 2005 1:54

I know locksmiths that do a bit of boarding up,but if a joiner fits a lock thats a no no.
As a locksmith i will not touch boarding up and i think there sould be a dividing line, they don't touch this and we wont touch that.
I mean when they build a house joiners don't start doing the plumbing.
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Postby jongir » 7 Oct 2005 4:19

No they might not do the plumbing but it is usually the joiners who fit the locks on new builds. And as for boarding up I personally don't do it but I think it is right for locksmiths to do it as well, as were not just doing locks anymore we also cover all types of security. thers no line out there. A joiner will fit a lock if he is asked but where as our work is all about security very little of the joiners work is security based. I think it is up to the lonely locksmith out there to decide how he wants to diversify to keep his business running. business is business. :lol:
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Re: Locksmith or joiner?

Postby panalman » 7 Oct 2005 4:21

chrisjc33 wrote:I know locksmiths that do a bit of boarding up,but if a joiner fits a lock thats a no no.
As a locksmith i will not touch boarding up and i think there sould be a dividing line, they don't touch this and we wont touch that.
I mean when they build a house joiners don't start doing the plumbing.


Yes I would agree to a point but when a person is being taught as a joiner fitting locks would be included somewhere along the line as it involves working with wood.

A locksmith is a person who works with the workings of locks and not just fitting them and in this day and age people expect a lot take your car to a garage and a mechanic will fix an electrical problem whilst he is giving it a service, many years ago you would have taken the car to an auto electrian to have the problem fixed its all about time and money.

So the next time you are called to a house to change some locks after it has been broken into and asked to board up a window give it some thought you are providing a service and nothing more. Being multi-skilled is not un common in most trades to-day and it is expected by a lot of employers nowadays.
There is always a solution to a problem and a way in without destruction !!!!!
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Postby toomush2drink » 10 Oct 2005 4:35

I do a bit of boarding up as i ve been asked to do it. Its all about what you feel comfortable doing, im not about to turn down an easy money job like boarding up at night as bills are bills. How many boarding up companies are spreading into the locksmith world ? Drawing a line wont get you anywhere as people like rf will just see the market and go for it. Now if boarding up companies were to get licensing etc that would be a different story hence the reason they are getting into the locksmith game.
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Postby Unlock-IT » 10 Oct 2005 14:36

Hi, Guys,
I think you will find that Carpenter/Joiners are some of the most versitile tradesmen around (multi skilled). This includes all of their own trade to roofing, plasterboarding, plastering, and most of the trades found on site (with exception to electrics and plumbing).
To say a carpenter fitting a lock is a no no is unbelievable :shock: :shock: ,it would be like not being allowed to fit the glass in a window you have just fitted. Lock fitting is one of the first things to be learnt after hanging the door. You can't hang the door without fitting the lock, do you leave the door without a lock and wait for someone else to fit it? may be next day? It is like saying a cabinet maker can't fit the locks on the furniture he makes. It would also be like saying a carpenter isn't allowed to fit UPVC. If you can fit a timber window and door whats the problem with plastic? same items different material thats all.
I have been a carpenter/joiner for the last 21 years (time served apprentiship). I have been locksmithing for the last 8 years and the reason I got into locksmithing is both jobs go hand in hand because everyone knows carpenters work with locks. So I have tried to take the lock work one step further by trying to be 100% non- destructive (where ever possible).
What you have to remember is tradesmen have to be as versitile (multiskilled) as possible to make the money, the era of one trade one job ended many years ago.
Unlock-IT
 
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Postby sandwell247 » 10 Oct 2005 17:36

well said time served chippie myself involved with local authority minor works dept mainly doing new build, refurbs ,door fitting, lock fitting contracts.
in the latter years due to competive tendering forced onto maintenance :cry: puttting other contractors work right.

lost count of how many pbs1's fitted ,mortice locks fitted, 3part multilocking systems by fullex,Yales fitted by hand in them days none of the fancy lock jigs or battery drills.

myself moved into the callout industry with the corpo getting called out all hours super glued locks in multi storeys 20th floor 2.00am bloody lift broken,the lovely smell of urine cabbage i could go on for hours like uncle albert talks about the navy :lol:.

having the right tools the patience and the commitment of doing a job well done.

22yrs and still learning everyday moved into lock opening six years ago brought a set of picks to broaden my horizons mica to slip the yales etc.

various crime waves have dictated our way forward into lock opening and with the internet the tools available now make it almost childsplay, but you do have to have the knowledge of how things work hours of stripping down locks defeating its mechanism gives me the same satisfaction as fitting a door or boarding a window to facing with putty.

once you have the dedication and care you can turn you hand to almost everything, still get that adrenaline rush when phone rings at 3.00am ready for the challenge ahead.
lockaroundtheclock
Trust the PRO'S who don't CON ....!
sandwell247
 
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Postby sandwell247 » 10 Oct 2005 17:57

[quote="toomush2drink"]I do a bit of boarding up as i ve been asked to do it. Its all about what you feel comfortable doing, im not about to turn down an easy money job like boarding up at night as bills are bills.

sounds easy looks easy :shock: be very careful if you do go into this line

not trying to put you off but it takes milliseconds to cut a guide in your wrist,
you also not only make it secure but think safety as well the onus will be on you in court if anyone gets injured by glass after you have boarded up

ASK 1st Solution who rang me 12 mths ago about boarding up if I didnt have contracts which involved this i wouldnt do it.

imagine in the hours of darkness you get called to board a upvc window where the Dgu has been smashed only, you accidentally put a screw into upvc or crack a weld before you know it a claim on your liability insurance for a new window.

just a thought for you to consider.
lockaroundtheclock
Trust the PRO'S who don't CON ....!
sandwell247
 
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Location: uk midlands

Postby toomush2drink » 11 Oct 2005 3:27

Ive done boarding up on a few properties now and safety is more common sense than brain ache stuff. Ive seen some terrible upvc boarding where all the frames have been screwed into when a piece of ply bolted through to battens would have done a nice secure fixing with no damage to the frames. My brother in law is a upvc installer so im well aware of the pitfalls of the stuff but thanks for the heads up.

Wood is wood basically however it is used and i think most people with experience using and working with it can turn their hand to anything to do with it as you say. I have a c&g in cabinet making so maybe my boarding up has a little bit too much finesse :lol: .
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Postby sandwell247 » 11 Oct 2005 7:50

handling wood is easy but handling glass is a different ball game

i have added a link for you to look at

http://www.ggf.co.uk/ggf/learn/view_doc ... html?id=14
hope this helps and wish you all the best
lockaroundtheclock
Trust the PRO'S who don't CON ....!
sandwell247
 
Posts: 46
Joined: 14 Mar 2005 18:34
Location: uk midlands

Postby Dimmy Locks » 26 Oct 2005 10:24

Cross trade work such as joiners fitting locks, locksmiths boarding up etc used to be frowned upon years ago, and I mean YEARS.

Much of this stemmed from unions protecting their members jobs.

Can you imagine the situations that used to occur at a simple door replacement job. Glazier fitting the glass panel, locksmith fitting the lock and a joiner actually fitting the door?

Mechanics were not allowed to change a car fuse or relay (relay switch as they were then), as that was an auto eletricians job.

I ran a small but successful roofing company for many years and I can tell you, if I had to call a plumber out to carry out repairs to a lead roof or a lead flashing, I would have been in financial ruin . ( at 1 time, only plumbers were allowed to work with lead repairs).

Acheiving the status of being a tradesman, of any trade surely shows a level of competance that can be utilised across different trades. The world has moved on, and we should be fully capable of dealing with the more common cross trade jobs as they occur.

If I recall, when DG 1st started becoming popular, the fitting companies looked for both joiners and glaziers to fit replacement windows. Neither were skilled in handling plastics. :wink:
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